Social Unacceptence

[sobe]

why is it that people cant accept that there are people who find the same sex attractive? iv seen this more so in men than women, and i have no idea why, especialy when if a guy is gay, doesnt that mean more of a chance for a strait guy to get a girl? any one have any ideas on the matter?

[coke]

have you noticed, many times the smoothest (as in play it smooth) or more attractive people are the ones who are most popular? and gay people are not very manly by definition, and they're not men who are good with girls or play it smooth.

[iNow]

Wow... warning... blatant generalization above that is so far from the truth it could very well be called a lie.

 

 

Sobe - The most viable explanation I've heard is a) suppression of ones own urges causes them to act out violently against those who remind them of the suppressed urge, and b) social cohesion, whereby the members of their group (friends) would find kindness to homosexuals a reason to kick them out of the group and ostracize them.

 

Overall, it's just about societal norms, and the indoctrination being handed down through the generations. Fathers and grandfathers saw homosexuality as an abomination and afront to their god, and these lessons are powerful to a young mind learning lifes lessons from those paternal figures. Times are changing, and things are getting better. You'll generally find that it is the less intelligent people on the planet who maintain such baseless bigotries.

Edited April 5, 2009 by iNow

[coke]

I think everybody should watch this before any further discussion. (just kidding)

 

Lol iNow, I'm sure you would have called it much worse than a 'blatant generalization' if not for that wellbutrin thing earlier .

Edited April 5, 2009 by coke

[iNow]

but what about this: they are afraid that everybody is going to become homosexual and that everything in society, even straight men, would become increasingly effeminate?.

 

With this assertion, you are left to explain why they are afraid of increasing effeminatization. You've not so much offered an explanation, but instead displaced the question, so it's not really all that helpful, now, is it?

[coke]

Yeah, that's why I took it out later...

 

Well for example, there would be no more attention on sports and male stuff, and say houses will all be painted pink and it won't be a "man's world" anymore.

 

That episode is obviously meant as a joke, but it does prove this idea... at first the women are happy that their husbands are acting more feminine, but then even they want them to act more manly.

Edited April 5, 2009 by coke

[iNow]

Super. Do you have any more baseless conjectures you're going to pull out of your rectum, or are you going to realize that the person who opened this thread wants a real answer to their real question, and that all of your speculations are simply preventing that from occurring?

 

And since when is a South Park episode scientifically credible proof? Take yourself and this community seriously, would ya please?

[coke]

ok iNow, but aren't your ideas speculations also? They may be more heard of, but as long as we're speculating, I don't see why that and my first idea are so horrible... don't bother responding, this is my last post here.

 

Btw, I pull these ideas out of my mind.

Edited April 5, 2009 by coke

[iNow]

Sobe,

 

This link is directly relevant to the question you posed in the OP:

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/assault/roots/freud.html

Although the causes of homophobia are unclear, several psychoanalytic explanations have emerged from the idea of homophobia as an anxiety-based phenomenon.<

more at the link

>

 

 

Here is another page from that same reference which covers the idea in a cultural context:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/assault/context/

 

 

Also, there is a lot of data in these search results depending on how detailed of an exploration you wish to do:

 

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&q=causes+of+homophobia&btnG=Search

 

 

Sorry for my role in taking your thread off topic. The larger point was that cokes post was fallacious, and I didn't want you thinking it was based on some greater scientific idea. Take care.

[Mokele]

coke, you are aware that not all gay men are effeminate, right? That many are no less "manly" than most of our society, and a good many are actually more "manly" (look up 'bears').

 

Consider this a moderator warning - state or imply that again, and you get a 'repeated prejudice' warning.

[Psycho]

coke, you are aware that not all gay men are effeminate, right? That many are no less "manly" than most of our society, and a good many are actually more "manly" (look up 'bears').

Indeed, I would say this is very true, many gay men take more pride in their appearance than the average straight man, by going to the gym and using facial products and so forth, I couldn't say why this is, but it is a more feminine quality due the social trend of women wearing making up and dressing up for the guys.

 

What annoys me personally is the guys who dress and act gay all the time, I mean really there is no need for it, to me it just seems some of them want to stand out from the crowd and are just like the posers who obviously think there is a certain way gay men act, which obviously isn't true.

[Mokele]

What annoys me personally is the guys who dress and act gay all the time, I mean really there is no need for it, to me it just seems some of them want to stand out from the crowd and are just like the posers who obviously think there is a certain way gay men act, which obviously isn't true.

 

So? Why shouldn't they, and what's wrong with it? People don't have to all act the same - compare an accountant to a punk rocker. Why should someone adopting a set of behaviors and mannerisms that their group prefers be a problem?

[sobe]

have you noticed, many times the smoothest (as in play it smooth) or more attractive people are the ones who are most popular? and gay people are not very manly by definition, and they're not men who are good with girls or play it smooth.

 

accualy there are alot of "manly" men who are gay, it is just percieved that most arnt because of a few who arnt and then we are generalized.

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Merged post follows:

Consecutive posts merged

What annoys me personally is the guys who dress and act gay all the time, I mean really there is no need for it, to me it just seems some of them want to stand out from the crowd and are just like the posers who obviously think there is a certain way gay men act, which obviously isn't true.

 

well, perhaps it anoys some gay guys the wait some strait guys try to act all showoffishly manly?

 

 

most gay guys who act like that are just doin what thay wana do, its how they like to act.

Edited April 5, 2009 by sobe
Consecutive posts merged.

[Psycho]

So? Why shouldn't they, and what's wrong with it? People don't have to all act the same - compare an accountant to a punk rocker. Why should someone adopting a set of behaviors and mannerisms that their group prefers be a problem?

Because that has nothing to do with being gay, most rock fans wear T-shirts for bands, they are supporting the band, or are acting like the band cause they play instruments or enjoy the music, they are hardly trying to be like "the gays" they are just moving into what they think they should be like.

 

well, perhaps it anoys some gay guys the wait some strait guys try to act all showoffishly manly?

To be fair they are just as bad, as are all the other posers out there.

[sobe]

To be fair they are just as bad, as are all the other posers out there.

 

 

 

ok, but the rest of what i said still stands, most gays arnt trying to just stand out, theyre acting how they wana act, though im not gona say all, because there are posers for every group out there.

[Mokele]

Because that has nothing to do with being gay, most rock fans wear T-shirts for bands, they are supporting the band, or are acting like the band cause they play instruments or enjoy the music, they are hardly trying to be like "the gays" they are just moving into what they think they should be like.

 

You're treading dangerously close to the line of dismissing any actions or personality you don't agree with. Who are you to say they're posing, that this isn't what they're "really like"? And what gives you the right to say someone is/isn't a poser, based on nothing more than a cursory examination of their behavior?

 

Implicit in your statement is that nobody is "really like" that, and it's all just affectation, which is incredibly dismissive, if not outright prejudiced.

 

Furthermore, how do you think such a social convention even got started? Was there a Super Secret Gay Meeting where the Council of Gays stated that everyone has to act that way, even though nobody there wanted to? Or is it possible that maybe, just maybe, you're wrong, and that some people really do have those personality characteristics?

[sobe]

thank you mokele

[Psycho]

You're treading dangerously close to the line of dismissing any actions or personality you don't agree with. Who are you to say they're posing, that this isn't what they're "really like"? And what gives you the right to say someone is/isn't a poser, based on nothing more than a cursory examination of their behavior?

 

Implicit in your statement is that nobody is "really like" that, and it's all just affectation, which is incredibly dismissive, if not outright prejudiced.

Yes whatever, most people just try to fit into a group and act typically "how they are supposed too" whether or not they are really like that.

 

Some people will be like that must the majority I have chatted to while out and about seem to be trying to fit in as much as they are like that naturally, as most people will do in any group of people.

 

just maybe, you're wrong, and that some people really do have those personality characteristics?

I think you will find that you are the one who is being overly defensive and coming out with ridiculous statements, I never said that some people wouldn't have characteristics like that, I was saying that a percentage of gay people overstate those characteristics more so than there true personality would show.

[sobe]

psyco, not every one feels the need to blend in with the croud. some gays like to, some do not, its how there personalitys are.

[Psycho]

psyco, not every one feels the need to blend in with the croud. some gays like to, some do not, its how there personalitys are.

I would say most gay or straight people would like to join a crowd, I don't think many would say they would like to blend in.

[sobe]

you can be in a crowd, but still be who you wana be, just gota find the people who accept you for who you are.

[Psycho]

you can be in a crowd, but still be who you wana be, just gota find the people who accept you for who you are.

Well done, completely missing the point that a percentage of people will act slightly differently around friends compare to if they were on there own, to detriment or enhancement of their personality depending on the change or your point of view.

[sobe]

well done for compleatly missing the point that alot of gay guys dont care what people think about them any more, if there open, so most dont act difrent around freinds, or even random people.

[Psycho]

well done for compleatly missing the point that alot of gay guys dont care what people think about them any more, if there open, so most dont act difrent around freinds, or even random people.

 

When did I say they did?

 

You seem to be so defensive of your point that you are arguing against the opinion of no one here.

 

Not to mention pushing gay people into some special category like they are going to have different social parameters to other groups in society.

[sobe]

i never pushed them into a "special category", and maby i am a little defensive, but im just trying to put it out there that a gay guy or any one for that matter, can act how they want to act and not hold back any of there personality, as you suggested, it just depends on how comfertable the person is about him or herself around others. personaly, i dont hold back, i act how i wana act and dont care what people think lol.