jordan Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 "Using Official Public Opinion Surveys, performed by your elected MP and not by private companies, we can find out which of the public policy proposals are approved by the majority of us. For every important public policy (equal access health care improvement, tax cuts, poverty elimination, accessible education, strong justice, more care for seniors and other) an information package about this proposals will be provided to a random panel of 400 voters from the electoral list of Cambridge and North Dumfries and at he end of the week they will receive a phone call from the MP asking them which proposal they support or not. This scientific survey has an accuracy of 95%. If the public opinion from Cambridge and North Dumfries supports one proposal with more than 50%, I am bound to raise my hand in Ottawa accordingly. This is what we call direct access democracy." Ah yes. Everyones favorite tellemarketers. m talking about decisions not laws.If the president wants something he ahs it. Except when it comes to the laws and regulations that govern our country. Then he has to go through the system. I don't care if the president wants a new car and he gets one without congress' aproval. That doesn't affect me. He can't raise taxes and dip into social security to pay for the car without some repercussions though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted May 27, 2004 Author Share Posted May 27, 2004 Its not he same thing as telemarketing its done by officials to a small sample of the general public, if someone dosnt want to answer the phone they dont its just a wasted vote. If the president wants something like the war in Iraq he gets it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blike Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/10/11/iraq.us/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted May 27, 2004 Author Share Posted May 27, 2004 Your right Blike , but It was Bush's idea to go to war not the senates idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blike Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 http://www.thestreet.com/_tsclsii/funds/beverlygoodman/10076423.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted May 27, 2004 Author Share Posted May 27, 2004 [url']http://www.thestreet.com/_tsclsii/funds/beverlygoodman/10076423.html[/url] Oooooh, good point.I guess he has some problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordan Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Its not he same thing as telemarketing its done by officials to a small sample of the general public' date=' if someone dosnt want to answer the phone they dont its just a wasted vote.If the president wants something like the war in Iraq he gets it. [/quote'] What about when people don't answer? How many times do they get before you "waste" their vote without them ever knowing? What do you tell the people who weren't called? How do you ensure a fair distribution of votes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atinymonkey Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 I remeber saying somewhere back in the thread that you can't expect people to vote on a few bills every night after dinner. They just won't be informed on them all' date=' nor will they have the desire to do so. You're saying the same thing, for the most part, only even once a month, people don't show up. So, it's one of those things that is good in theory but very difficult to impliment in the real world. [/quote'] Damn it. Argued down by myself. Uhh, check your history books. The president does make some decisions, but see who passes the laws. My history books don't see it the same way. Actually, they don't see much in the same way unless it happened between 1911 and 1952 in Eastern Europe and was covered in some form of brown chocolate goo. O_o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted May 27, 2004 Author Share Posted May 27, 2004 What about when people don't answer?How many times do they get before you "waste" their vote without them ever knowing? What do you tell the people who weren't called? How do you ensure a fair distribution of votes? Answers: What about when people don't answer? You dont if they dont vote they lose it, it isnt counted in the voting. How many times do they get before you "waste" their vote without them ever knowing? Theyt only vote once for every call. What do you tell the people who weren't called? People are chosen from the legal voters list then separated into different categories of age and sex.Then samples are taken from each category (I dont know how many samples).The people that are called will be able to vote the ones that arent will have to wait untill next time. How do you ensure a fair distribution of votes? Look above. I hope that answered your questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordan Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 A few follow ups: How do ensure the person on the phone is the person they say they are? What do you do when the angry mob attacks you at the White House because they were at their kid's music recital and missed their only chance to vote on the issue of abortion? For question two, you misunderstood what I was saying. If you don't reach them, do they lose their chance after one call? If so, see above. Or do you give them X number of days before they lose their chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted May 28, 2004 Author Share Posted May 28, 2004 A few follow ups: What do you do when the angry mob attacks you at the White House because they were at their kid's music recital and missed their only chance to vote on the issue of abortion? For question two' date=' you misunderstood what I was saying. If you don't reach them, do they lose their chance after one call? If so, see above. Or do you give them X number of days before they lose their chance?[/quote'] The answers: How do ensure the person on the phone is the person they say they are? You call later on??? What do you do when the angry mob attacks you at the White House because they were at their kid's music recital and missed their only chance to vote on the issue of abortion? The person isnt informed that they will be able to vote the sampling from the categories is completely random, there is no pre arranged list.They wouldnt know. For question two, you misunderstood what I was saying. If you don't reach them, do they lose their chance after one call? If so, see above. Or do you give them X number of days before they lose their chance? As I said above the sampling is random, if the person dosnt answer or has no opinion you ask another person in the same category it works... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordan Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 You call later on??? What? How does that help? The person isnt informed that they will be able to vote the sampling from the categories is completely random, there is no pre arranged list.They wouldnt know. Right. So how do you justify a person missing their chance to vote because they were at a perfictly ligitimate place when you called. We don't vote at the polls by saying "OK, Tesseract can only vote at 4:56, but don't tell him. If he's not here, oh well, he must not care that much." You'd have to give people a fair chance or they'll get really mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atinymonkey Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 The very idea of a phone vote is out of date by over a century. Postal votes, email votes or poll stations are the three viable options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted May 28, 2004 Author Share Posted May 28, 2004 The very idea of a phone vote is out of date by over a century. Postal votes, email votes or poll stations are the three viable options. The problem is democracy is for all people and not all the people can have those options, and you need money to organize all the votes.Every year there would only be about 20 votes at the most, and if a proposal is passed by some citizens on a new law or changing another law there could be more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted May 28, 2004 Author Share Posted May 28, 2004 What? How does that help? Right. So how do you justify a person missing their chance to vote because they were at a perfictly ligitimate place when you called. We don't vote at the polls by saying "OK' date=' Tesseract can only vote at 4:56, but don't tell him. If he's not here, oh well, he must not care that much." You'd have to give people a fair chance or they'll get really mad.[/quote'] Whew, Answers: What? How does that help? The point is to get a vote depending on the size of the population in that city, it would only be around 400 people that would have to be called to get 95% accuracy.For it to be fair to all people and to be cost and time effective there has to be a minimum of people called.If the person there is busy at the time and they miss there vote, so be it it gives anoher person a chance to vote.People will miss votes, but its better than calling the entire population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 But how do you know that the person that answers is the person you are trying to call? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted May 28, 2004 Author Share Posted May 28, 2004 But how do you know that the person that answers is the person you are trying to call? Why is that important? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 Because you might call the same guy hundreds of times, because he hacked into your computer and made all the phone numbers his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 Why is that important? Surely it matters that you call the entire nation or people don't get a chance to vote for who they want to? Or am I just getting confused? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted May 28, 2004 Author Share Posted May 28, 2004 Because you might call the same guy hundreds of times, because he hacked into your computer and made all the phone numbers his. Can you expalin that a little bit better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted May 28, 2004 Author Share Posted May 28, 2004 Surely it matters that you call the entire nation or people don't get a chance to vote for who they want to? Or am I just getting confused? Id say your confused... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 Id say your confused... Well, you would say that I'd say there's quite a few problems with that system though. It's not really democracy if you're getting a select few to decide the outcome of something - plus the system is very much open to people who might like to tap into/monitor the phonecalls, and possibly change the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted May 28, 2004 Author Share Posted May 28, 2004 Well' date=' you would say that I'd say there's quite a few problems with that system though. It's not really democracy if you're getting a select few to decide the outcome of something - plus the system is very much open to people who might like to tap into/monitor the phonecalls, and possibly change the outcome.[/quote'] Idont see how they would change the outcome, all you have to do is do a tally that can be done on a piece of paper.What do you mean select few, you look at the list of viable voters (over 18, I think) then you separate the voters into categories of sex and age, and pick random samples from each category the people picked are allowed to vote, the people not phoned dont vote.I would be way to much to ask every person on every issue.This way is a 95% accuracy level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 I think I'm either talking or thinking about something different, but nevermind. Where did the accuracy figure come from, out of interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract Posted May 28, 2004 Author Share Posted May 28, 2004 I think I'm either talking or thinking about something different' date=' but nevermind. Where did the accuracy figure come from, out of interest?[/quote'] From the site... Actually theres a simple equation to find out the amount of people needed to be phoned in order to have an acurate vote.The figures are from the voting population. For example say the population was 500,000 for 95% about 400 people have to be phoned (total guess). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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