UK bans Michael Savage

[Daecon]

"Inciting hatred" should be a criminal offense.

[DrP]

I agree - but I think it is a bit ambigious and a matter of personal opinion where the lines are drawn between deliberate incitement and heated pasionate discussion.

[Severian]

"Inciting hatred" should be a criminal offense.

 

And if that comment makes me hate you, should you be arrested and locked up?

[Daecon]

The way I see it, if you "attack" people based on something that they can't change, such as their race, sexuality, age, nationality, disabilities, etc. then it can and should be considered hateful.

 

If you "attack" people based on something that isn't uncontrollable, such as their fashion sense, religion, hairstyle, the foods they eat, then it is something that can be debated heatedly over.

 

Still, I can see where the lines could still be blurred. Which group would someone's accent be placed?

[bascule]

I prefer a bit more lenient approach to free speech.

 

I respect the ACLU for defending the rights of the KKK

[Daecon]

A person's right to free speech should depend on how tactful and diplomatic they can be.

 

It's usually a good indicator of how reasonable they are, too.

[GutZ]

It just makes himself look bad....he's the crazy guy on the street preaching crap. I hate him too, but I don't think it's necessary to "take away peoples rights to be assholes" as Simon Phoenix puts it. If people are only getting offended, that's far better than lossing right to potential to create a host of laws regarding what you can and can't say. Once you say that one thing should be regarded as illegal, it opens up the potential for more. Normally the potential for something to happen isnt a strong arguement but that usually when there is more to lose, more pain.

 

People have the choice to be offended. Who even cares about the KKK? Besides the violence aspect of course (any group can be violent) No one really cares what the KKK thinks and says, as it should be. It's bullshit....just like "9/11 is inside job!" and I made this movie with "loose change".

 

It will naturally all fall in it's place. Savage will have no credibility, people will get sick of him, they will expose him, he will look foolish. He'll probably get caught with a male prostitute one day....

 

Let it go...and keep the freedom.

[bombus]

 

I don't think we can do this in America. We would have to reject some "category" of person, and then include some kind of criteria that puts someone like Savage in that category. We can't just pick on a single individual, or a list of folks our government doesn't like, unless of course they're guilty of some sort of crime or would be crime in our country. At least I think that's true.

 

Not so sure. Cat Stevens wasn't allowed into the US a couple of years ago, basically coz he now has a 'muslim' name. Now THAT really can't be justified.

[Pangloss]

That's not why Cat Stevens wasn't allowed into the US, bombus. He was accused of giving money to Hamas, and later cleared and admitted to the country.

[bombus]

That's not why Cat Stevens wasn't allowed into the US, bombus. He was accused of giving money to Hamas, and later cleared and admitted to the country.

 

I didn't know that. Glad he was let in eventually.

[elas]

As an aside, it should not go unnoticed that the main problem for all those mentioned, is being famous. For lesser mortals persistance pays off.

From '76 to '86 hundreds of South Africans arrived in the Carribean and tried to gain entry into the USA or, failing that; the UK. Passports were available at £1000 and $1000. The US supplier was eventually caught but refused to return to the USA instead he had a thriving bussiness in the Carribean.

The UK supplier refused to supply more than six per year because that was the maximum the department could lose without causing an investigation.

But, South Africans are well verse in dealing with hard nose goverments and by carefully testing the system a way was found to acquire a valid passport from US authorities simply by juggling the system. All white South Africans rapidly dissapeared to become anomalous US citizens, regardless of their often extreme racial views. Unfortunately the method did not work for the one very moderate coloured S African (of Indian desent) who sadly was forced eventually to return to SA.

South Africans now find it easier to go to Australia, but I did hear a rumour that USA immigration are soft on SA illegal immigrants as part of a campaign to keep English as the main language. Sadly my days as a Carribean beach bum ended long ago, but the stories of attempts to enter the USA formed a large part of beach bum chatter and probably still does.

The key to success is anonimity.

Edited June 1, 2009 by elas

[iNow]

The key to success is anonimity.

 

Yeah, I'm pretty certain that's going to be the title of Paris Hilton's new book.

[SH3RL0CK]

As an aside, it should not go unnoticed that the main problem for all those mentioned, is being famous. For lesser mortals persistance pays off.

From '76 to '86 hundreds of South Africans arrived in the Carribean and tried to gain entry into the USA or, failing that; the UK. Passports were available at £1000 and $1000. The US supplier was eventually caught but refused to return to the USA instead he had a thriving bussiness in the Carribean.

The UK supplier refused to supply more than six per year because that was the maximum the department could lose without causing an investigation.

link?

But, South Africans are well verse in dealing with hard nose goverments and by carefully testing the system a way was found to acquire a valid passport from US authorities simply by juggling the system. All white South Africans rapidly dissapeared to become anomalous US citizens, regardless of their often extreme racial views. Unfortunately the method did not work for the one very moderate coloured S African (of Indian desent) who sadly was forced eventually to return to SA.

South Africans now find it easier to go to Australia, but I did hear a rumour that USA immigration are soft on SA illegal immigrants as part of a campaign to keep English as the main language.

The key to success is anonimity.

 

The USA is soft on all illegal imigrants (as long as said immigrants don't make themselves noticed). I've known some (of hispanic origin - they only speak spanish) who have been in the country for years...they have daughters born in the USA who are now teenagers (we used to be neighbors). AFAIK, they've not had any problems with being able to stay despite their status.

[bombus]

All I can say is, wow. Especially on the last one.

 

I thought everyone knew about the communist party question!

[elas]

link?

 

The USA is soft on all illegal imigrants (as long as said immigrants don't make themselves noticed). I've known some (of hispanic origin - they only speak spanish) who have been in the country for years...they have daughters born in the USA who are now teenagers (we used to be neighbors). AFAIK, they've not had any problems with being able to stay despite their status.

 

As part of the anti-aparthide agreement S African whites were banned from all forms of travel to a large number of countries including USA, UK and all Carribean islands. To cease being hunted they bribed Carribean officials and sought to change their nationality in order to travel and work freely in other countries. Becomming illegal immigrants was not something they were prepared to accept, it was regarded as to risky. You need to look at it from the point of view of the hunted reared in what was virtually a police state and not as a free citizen of a democratic country.

There is still a vast market for illegal passports as I am sure any US customs official would confirm. The US is soft on immigrants from South America for political reasons, this does not extend to other countries to anything like the same degree. Do you know an illegal immigrant from eastern Europe or Africa who will freely admit to his or her status? They live in fear of discovery and deportment, it is a completely different mental atitude to that of Latinos.

[Mokele]

As part of the anti-aparthide agreement S African whites were banned from all forms of travel to a large number of countries including USA, UK and all Carribean islands.

 

That sounds like BS. Source?

[JohnB]

They live in fear of discovery and deportment

What, somebody will make them sit up straight and walk properly?

 

Or did you mean deportation?

 

(Couldn't resist.)

[elas]

What, somebody will make them sit up straight and walk properly?

 

Or did you mean deportation?

 

(Couldn't resist.)

 

I stand corrected.

With apologies

elas

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Merged post follows:

Consecutive posts merged

.hat sounds like BS. Source?

 

UN resolution.

[bascule]

UN resolution.

 

Perhaps you could be a bit more specific. What UN resolution? What text? Do you at least have a supporting source which references said resolution?

[elas]

Perhaps you could be a bit more specific. What UN resolution? What text? Do you at least have a supporting source which references said resolution?

 

Beach bums do not keep records! For eleven years I lived with the people mentioned, barbequed with the son of the US official who sold passports; listened to the remarkable stories of some of the South African whites as they explained what life was like under the last Boer goverment.

Together with the Carribean white settlers they formed a fascinating group of people; all were, or were the decsendents of, people fleeing from there home country.

From three grandsons of the private secretary to the last tsar of Russia to the descendents of a Portugese peasant who begged a ships captain to take his children to the Carribean in the hope that they would find a better life; they never saw their parents again but, like the Russians their descendants are now important members of the Carribean bussiness community; so now, are some of the South Africans.

I just sat quietly and listened, I provided rum punch and my wife sometimes provided real Cornish pasties. It was a price worth paying to listen to people from totally different backgrounds talking about different ways of life in a manner that I never new existed and never seems to be explained to quite the same intensity by the media.

Added to this were the American visitors, my very first charter consisted of two elderly husbands and wives who had not previously met. After a few drinks it was revealed that one was a retired US navy destroyer commander and the other had been the capain of a German U-boat; I never got another word in!. But it just goes to show who the USA allowed in at one time and who is refused entry at a later time.

[Sisyphus]

The UN = "beach bums?"

[SH3RL0CK]

Beach bums do not keep records! For eleven years I lived with the people mentioned, barbequed with the son of the US official who sold passports; listened to the remarkable stories of some of the South African whites as they explained what life was like under the last Boer goverment.

Together with the Carribean white settlers they formed a fascinating group of people; all were, or were the decsendents of, people fleeing from there home country.

From three grandsons of the private secretary to the last tsar of Russia to the descendents of a Portugese peasant who begged a ships captain to take his children to the Carribean in the hope that they would find a better life; they never saw their parents again but, like the Russians their descendants are now important members of the Carribean bussiness community; so now, are some of the South Africans.

I just sat quietly and listened, I provided rum punch and my wife sometimes provided real Cornish pasties. It was a price worth paying to listen to people from totally different backgrounds talking about different ways of life in a manner that I never new existed and never seems to be explained to quite the same intensity by the media.

Added to this were the American visitors, my very first charter consisted of two elderly husbands and wives who had not previously met. After a few drinks it was revealed that one was a retired US navy destroyer commander and the other had been the capain of a German U-boat; I never got another word in!. But it just goes to show who the USA allowed in at one time and who is refused entry at a later time.

 

Those stories do not sound at all remarkable to me. B.T.W. I happen to be the legitimate king of France. And Prussia. If I weren't so independently wealthy (I have a knack for picking the right lottery numbers), I would go back and reclaim what is rightfully mine. Plus, ruling France and Germany aren't worth the hassle... what would I personally gain by doing so? I suppose these stories would sound interesting, perhaps, to those who are less priviledged.

[iNow]

As part of the anti-aparthide agreement S African whites were banned from all forms of travel to a large number of countries including USA, UK and all Carribean islands.

 

That sounds like BS. Source?

 

UN resolution.

 

Perhaps you could be a bit more specific. What UN resolution? What text? Do you at least have a supporting source which references said resolution?

 

Beach bums do not keep records!

 

 

Translation:

"I have no idea what I'm talking about. My points are all based on hearsay and anecdote, I lied when I said that it was based on UN resolution, and my argument can be safely dismissed as false by all readers, and a complete waste of their time."

[Pangloss]

I think elas meant himself as the beach-bum, intended as humor.

 

I appreciate where you're coming from, elas, but we require evidence for factual statements. Please consider this fair warning from a moderator. Thanks.

[elas]

I think elas meant himself as the beach-bum, intended as humor.

 

I appreciate where you're coming from, elas, but we require evidence for factual statements. Please consider this fair warning from a moderator. Thanks.

 

Correct on first point.

 

Google search entry - UN Anti-Apartheid resolutions - result -Resolution 1761

 

Some people are as lazy as a beach bum!

Edited June 4, 2009 by elas