asprung Posted May 12, 2009 Author Posted May 12, 2009 Does that mean he could age and die in his frame while staying young when viewed from outside frames?
J.C.MacSwell Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 Does that mean he could age and die in his frame while staying young when viewed from outside frames? Not if while and when are defined in the same frame.
NowThatWeKnow Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 I dont undrestand. Someone here shared this video on time dilation with me recently and I thought it was one of the better ones. Check it out. If you could view Earth in real time after accelerating out of Earth's frame, you would see people age quickly. They would see you age slowly in your frame if viewing in real time was possible.
J.C.MacSwell Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 Someone here shared this video on time dilation with me recently and I thought it was one of the better ones. Check it out. If you could view Earth in real time after accelerating out of Earth's frame, you would see people age quickly. They would see you age slowly in your frame if viewing in real time was possible. Ouch.
iNow Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 Someone here shared this video on time dilation with me recently and I thought it was one of the better ones. Check it out. HHRK6ojWdtU Neat video. Nice and simple. Thanks for sharing.
NowThatWeKnow Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 (edited) Neat video. Nice and simple. Thanks for sharing. It was gib65 that shared it with me recently and I also thought it was well done. asprung, you will enjoy it. Merged post follows: Consecutive posts mergedOuch. Take a deeep breath. Edit - Not sure why "master time" and "real time" seems to bother so many. It is clear in my mind. I think. At least when I look at it as a cosmology issue and not just a relativity issue. Edited May 13, 2009 by NowThatWeKnow Consecutive posts merged.
BlondeEngineer Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 It's the difference between jerk, lurch and glide... The distortion happens when a multi-mass is suddenly subjected to an inertial change. Momentum of said multimass differs if the mass is not equal within the body -> such as an organic construct (including one-cell) or a machine with delicate instrumentation... This we feel as G's or gravity units... A human being IS distorted by G-forces so yes, we DO get constricted... Most people will black out due to capillary collapse before they actually die from the front end of their body pressing through to the back end... Hence the idea that IF we could get a spaceship to the speed of light, it would take half the trip to accellerate to the highest velocity and then the next half decellerating. This sci-fi idea that when a person gets pulled into a black hole past the event horizon they still exist just in a stretched state is bullhockey... Sure, the matter that we are would get stretched, but our biological system would such down just as sure as if we were subjected to any other physical environmental change i.e. vaccuum of space or the depths of the ocean... Question is: Which would be a faster death? Explosion, Implosion, or Distortion?
iNow Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 A human being IS distorted by G-forces so yes, we DO get constricted... This sentence makes zero sense until you state "relative to" what or whom. Most of your post seems to be discussing tidal effects, whereby the effect of strong gravity on one end of the body is more intense than the effect of gravity on the other end of the body (further away from the source of that gravity). This leads to stretching and "spaghettifying" of the object. The pull on your toes is stronger than the pull on your head, so you get thinner and snap like a rubber band... In situations of extreme gravity like within the event horizon on a black hole. However, that's NOT what we're discussing here in this thread. Tidal effects are not the same as time and length contraction or the dependence on reference frame mandated by relativity.
asprung Posted May 15, 2009 Author Posted May 15, 2009 Could length contraction viewed from other time frames cause damage? Stranger things seem to happen.
iNow Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 Could length contraction viewed from other time frames cause damage? Stranger things seem to happen. I'm not sure what that even means. It's like you're asking if playing a movie faster on your VCR makes the actors in that movie get more tired. 1
asprung Posted May 15, 2009 Author Posted May 15, 2009 The spaceman has but one body and I am asking if length contraction viewed from but one frame could affect him?
Sisyphus Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 The spaceman has but one body and I am asking if length contraction viewed from but one frame could affect him? If you're asking if somebody who is moving at 0.99C relative to the Earth can kill you by looking at us and noticing the Earth is compressed, then the answer is no. If that's not what you're asking, then could you ask it some other way?
GDG Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 The spaceman has but one body and I am asking if length contraction viewed from but one frame could affect him? Length contraction affects how he looks from another frame, not how he is in his own frame. The spaceman will not notice any amount of length contraction in himself.
Sisyphus Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 Length contraction affects how he looks from another frame, not how he is in his own frame. The spaceman will not notice any amount of length contraction in himself. It's more than just how he looks, though, which I think is the source of most of the confusion in this thread, so it should be repeated. It affects how he is in another frame. It is more than merely an illusion. It's exactly as real as time compression - in fact, they're two sides of the same phenomenon. Just as in the twin paradox, they really are different ages at the end, in the ladder paradox, the length contracted ladder really does fit inside the barn that's otherwise too short for it. Even though the twin doesn't himself experience anything unusual, and neither does the ladder.
swansont Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 It's more than just how he looks, though, which I think is the source of most of the confusion in this thread, so it should be repeated. It affects how he is in another frame. It is more than merely an illusion. It's exactly as real as time compression - in fact, they're two sides of the same phenomenon. Just as in the twin paradox, they really are different ages at the end, in the ladder paradox, the length contracted ladder really does fit inside the barn that's otherwise too short for it. Even though the twin doesn't himself experience anything unusual, and neither does the ladder. Precisely. One has to appreciate the connectedness of length, time and simultaneity. It's all real, not illusion. The ladder really is 10 meters long in one frame and one meter long in another. But the spacemen only cares about his own frame. If he's supposed to be 2m tall in that frame, and he is, then there's no problem. It doesn't matter what other observers measure his height to be.
UC Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 either this guy is incredibly thick or he's a subtle troll who's rolling around on the floor laughing right now.
asprung Posted May 16, 2009 Author Posted May 16, 2009 Im thick. He has but one body and it is really compressed in a time frame. How do we know what effect this might or might not have?
swansont Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 Im thick. He has but one body and it is really compressed in a time frame. How do we know what effect this might or might not have? We know his clock is running slow, and if we know his speed relative to us, we know by how much. We can use that to predict what effects it might have.
srimukh Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 its a good doubt.. but u need to keep in mind the frame of reference from which you are observing the astronaut.. in our frame of reference he is moving at very high speed, but in his frame of reference, we are moving at high speeed. he does not experience any length contraction in HIS FRAME OF REF.
J.C.MacSwell Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 Im thick. He has but one body and it is really compressed in a time frame. How do we know what effect this might or might not have? From the laws of physics proven by experiment.
asprung Posted May 16, 2009 Author Posted May 16, 2009 Length and time compression go hand in hand. It is said that time compression effects his body in his frame-slows his ageing-why should not length compression be able to effect him?
iNow Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 Length and time compression go hand in hand. It is said that time compression affects his body in his frame Where exactly is this said? It's not true. Time compression effects his body in the frame of others, not his.
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