GM Cannabis

[cetus]

this is off the point

canabise 2"trees" could have too many defects and problems but it also might be possible if we prefected the art of genetic engineering and not using the "throw the dice and see what happens" approch

but it is alot harder with todays technologie

we could end up with a lot of dead trees

[GDG]

this is off the point

canabise 2"trees" could have too many defects and problems but it also might be possible if we prefected the art of genetic engineering and not using the "throw the dice and see what happens" approch

but it is alot harder with todays technologie

we could end up with a lot of dead trees

 

You might be interested to learn that "random mutagenesis" is (perhaps "was") a standard technique in genetics. Take a population of organisms (bacteria, yeast, fruit flies, etc.), expose it to a mutagen (radiation, mutagenic chemicals), and screen the population (or its progeny) for mutations of interest.

 

You wouldn't necessarily need to grow each specimen to tree size...

[CaptainPanic]

Assuming that it's possible to build a THC gene into an oak tree - why is this interesting at all (apart from just the theoretical question)?

 

Why would you want to make a tree out of one of the fastest growing plants in the world?

 

Cannabis produces more biomass per hectare (per surface of land) than an oak tree... I fail to see the point or turning it into a tree, especially an oak.

 

In addition, most cannabis (or better: hemp) is used for its fibers... and oak trees have really lousy fibers. Oak is good for furniture. In fact, any other tree (poplar, beech) is probably better for producing fibers.

 

In other words, if you want to get stoned, use Cannabis. Nature did its very best in creating that plant - we cannot improve it by copying its genes into other (less effective) plants.

 

If you want hemp: same thing. Hemp is already optimized.

 

If you want furniture that contains THC, go see a doctor.

[AlexTehManiac]

Cannabis is not addictive in the traditional sense. It does not cause withdrawal symptoms. It is, however, addictive in the same way that pizza, exercise, and sex are. It feels good, so we tend to want to do it more. However, it's nothing like cigarettes, alcohol, or heroine, so don't believe the hype.

 

That is a good argument.

Cannabis is not as addictive although it does smell gross. Growing it on a tree would be a bit of a bad idea because the police would see it aswell as you'd most likely get the genomes from the oak tree mixed in with the THC I'm guessing. Sorry if this is not from much of a scientific view but I hope it helps

[cetus]

but people still smoke it and as mentioned ealyer that this is an illigle drug so why would u wan to grow it in large amounts if u could get cought

[iNow]

but people still smoke it and as mentioned ealyer that this is an illigle drug so why would u wan to grow it in large amounts if u could get cought

 

Because some people willingly take risks to do things they enjoy. You can also often make a lot of money with minimal effort by growing it yourself (precisely because it is illegal and hence more difficult to obtain). It was illegal to drink alcohol before I turned 21, but I did that, too. It's also illegal to exceed the speed limit when driving... Yet, I do it all of the time. Same thing, really.

 

Now, I no longer smoke pot. I sort of outgrew it. I was just answering the question you put forth.

[UC]

but people still smoke it and as mentioned ealyer that this is an illigle drug so why would u wan to grow it in large amounts if u could get cought

 

You list your location as england, thus I assume that your first language is english. Please take the time out of your busy day to type in it. Thank you.

[Psycho]

You would be better off taking the THC genes or operon and inserting it using a transposon, or phage vector into E.coli and then screening for antibiotic resistance within the vector. You could also just add multiple plasmids and therefore have multiple gene copies within the bacteria however then it would have to have some kind of selective advantage otherwise it won't replicate with the replicating cell.

 

If this were possible, which it isn't due to the pathway not being elucidated, you could then use multiple condition to see which makes the bacteria overproduce THC to the highest level. You would then have to purify it however this would create a extremely potent form of the drug, which would have the effects and grandeur that some people oh so claim that THC causes, it would just make you irritable, paranoid and hallucinate, therefore you would have to have some kind of "mixer", maybe binding it to a precipitate of some sort.

[GDG]

You would be better off taking the THC genes or operon and inserting it using a transposon, or phage vector into E.coli and then screening for antibiotic resistance within the vector. You could also just add multiple plasmids and therefore have multiple gene copies within the bacteria however then it would have to have some kind of selective advantage otherwise it won't replicate with the replicating cell.

 

If this were possible, which it isn't due to the pathway not being elucidated, you could then use multiple condition to see which makes the bacteria overproduce THC to the highest level. You would then have to purify it however this would create a extremely potent form of the drug, which would have the effects and grandeur that some people oh so claim that THC causes, it would just make you irritable, paranoid and hallucinate, therefore you would have to have some kind of "mixer", maybe binding it to a precipitate of some sort.

 

Of course, E. coli is right at home in the human gut. Could be unpleasant to become infected/colonized with your experimental strain, and be persistently high...

[cetus]

what happens if the drug produced can cause bodly harm to the human taking it

[Psycho]

Of course, E. coli is right at home in the human gut. Could be unpleasant to become infected/colonized with your experimental strain, and be persistently high...

Well the strain would have to be selected for auxotrophy in glycerol or biotin anyway and then placed on a medium with these substances added in a limited amount and these wouldn't be available in the gastrointestinal tract. Infection would never occur unless the auxotroph had a reversion mutation even then it would not have the virulence plasmids within the strain to allow infection as that would reduce the yield of the wanted product, as well as being unwise.

[GDG]

All reasonable precautions, but keep in mind how easily bacteria swap genes. The danger is not just that your crippled E. coli would revert, but that (a) they could potentially acquire the necessary genes from other bacteria, and (b) they could potentially share their new THC-synthase genes with other bacteria, not so enfeebled. Imagine some of your cutaneous staph A picking up the THC genes: persistent "contact" high

 

Seriously, though, I agree that it is possible to reduce the risk to reasonable levels.

[Psycho]

All reasonable precautions, but keep in mind how easily bacteria swap genes. The danger is not just that your crippled E. coli would revert, but that (a) they could potentially acquire the necessary genes from other bacteria, and (b) they could potentially share their new THC-synthase genes with other bacteria, not so enfeebled. Imagine some of your cutaneous staph A picking up the THC genes: persistent "contact" high

 

Seriously, though, I agree that it is possible to reduce the risk to reasonable levels.

A whole operon is never going to passed to another species via bacterial conjugation due to the way it works and an incomplete transfer would have no advantage to the recipient organism and therefore wouldn't be replicated with the host chromosome when dividing.

 

Furthermore any constitutive genes will be located on the chromosomes and not in plasmids so won't easily be able to be transferred by conjugation due to a recombination event with an F-plasmid being required with the whole operon.

 

Any bacteria which can't survive in the environment due to lack of cell wall components won't be able to enter the gastrointetinal tract, replicate the F-plasmid, after transcribing and translating many flagellin protiens as well as other proteins and assembing them in an unstable cell wall.

 

That is without even mentioning the many defence systems the body has, how well do you think a bacteria with an unstable cell wall and lack of precursors to repair it is going to fair in an environment with high levels of lyzosyme in the saliva?

 

I mean how much do you plan on eatting, E. coli doesn't smell great and I guess the taste isn't much better.

[Moontanman]

I know this thread is about a cannabis/oak tree cross but I've always wanted to insert the gene for the active ingredients of Cannabis into the floating fern "Azolla carolinas" this fern already has a symbiotic relationship with the cyanobacterium "Anabaena azollae" which allows the fern to fix atmospheric nitrogen. Such a combo might be very good at producing high quality THC in small containers with minimum fertilizers.

Azolla is a good animal feed, fertilizer and has been suggested as a good way to decrease greenhouse gases. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azolla

[GDG]

A whole operon is never going to passed to another species via bacterial conjugation due to the way it works and an incomplete transfer would have no advantage to the recipient organism and therefore wouldn't be replicated with the host chromosome when dividing.

 

(a) traits like multi-drug resistance and pathogenicity are passed all the time; (b) whether it happens by F plasmid conjugation or not, it does occur; © if traits like antibiotic production can be passed (and they can), I don't see where THC synthesis is any more complicated (has anyone already figured out the size of the operon that would be required?); and (d) if there is no advantage to the recipient bug, how are you maintaining it in your culture?

 

Furthermore any constitutive genes will be located on the chromosomes and not in plasmids so won't easily be able to be transferred by conjugation due to a recombination event with an F-plasmid being required with the whole operon.

 

Looking back a few posts, I see that your proposal was to use transposons (which of course pop out of the chromosomes as easily as they pop in) or phage vectors... And of course, F-plasmid conjugation is not the only means for sharing DNA: see, e.g., transformation.

 

Any bacteria which can't survive in the environment due to lack of cell wall components won't be able to enter the gastrointetinal tract, replicate the F-plasmid, after transcribing and translating many flagellin protiens as well as other proteins and assembing them in an unstable cell wall.

 

They don't need to survive: all they need to do is release their DNA where other bacteria can pick it up. This may be in your petri dish, on your glove, on your cheek, or in your gut.

 

That is without even mentioning the many defence systems the body has, how well do you think a bacteria with an unstable cell wall and lack of precursors to repair it is going to fair in an environment with high levels of lyzosyme in the saliva?

 

And yet your gut is home to a huge population of bacteria, in a number of species. Again, your crippled strain does not have to survive to pass on its new genes.

 

I mean how much do you plan on eatting, E. coli doesn't smell great and I guess the taste isn't much better.

 

I don't recall ever eating any, yet there they are, in my gut (and I assume, in yours). Further, the population appears to be a steady state, depending on continual immigrants.

[CharonY]

Some random thoughts:

 

- lab strains are usually weakling and do not compete well (or at all) with the indigenous flora. Thus they will never be numerically significant. As such transfers are somewhat unlikely as they generally do not persist enough to let significant amount of transfer (they are technically rare events, forced to happen in the lab in higher frequency by using vast amount of cells) However:

 

- why the heck shouldn't operons be transferred? Even non-mobilizable plasmids (i.e. lacking a mob region) can be taken up (the fertility factors do not determine the transfer of a given plasmid per se, btw.). Those with a mob factor (or broad host range plasmids) have an easier time to spread quickly, though. Granted on the skin the chances are low, but if the plasmids end up in the sewer (and later on the wastewater treatment plants) the chances are skyrocketing. However:

 

-given the fact that the genes in question will not provide any advantages (and in fact, will reduce fitness), it is very likely they will get inactivated, deleted, or the plasmid may get lost as whole (unless selective pressure exist to maintain it).

 

Finally, proper aseptic techniques are also designed to contaminate oneself with bacteria, including BSL1 ones.

[cetus]

one of the other issuses is that you might not get a complete strand of dna