God Particle

[Tolmosoff]

What came before the Big Bang ?. Are we alone ? Only one Universe ?.

 

Do universes collapse and recycle over again ?.

[Reaper]

1) Don't know

2) Probably not

3) Technically, it is assumed that the Universe contains everything there could possibly be, but we don't know enough to rule out multiple universes.

4) How the hell are we supposed to know?

 

And what does this have anything to do with the so-called "God Particle", much better known as the Higgs Boson?

[mooeypoo]

You're asking 4 COMPLETELY different questions, each of them with a very complicated answer. Can you pick one to concentrate on? otherwise it's very difficult to even start.

 

Besides -- what does anything have to do with the "God Particle", other than my assumption that you probably just watched "Angels and Demons" ?

[brain-in-a-vat]

God particle? Possibly if you mean is there a single particle/force that unifies and is common to all particles with mass. Strings maybe, or even a new level of undetectable quantum action such as a quantum particle/wave.

What came before the Big Bang ?

There are a variety of possibilities but my favorite is a big crunch. I like that alternative but it requires that there be as yet undiscovered physics that could make a big crunch result in a Big Bang. I'm thinking that if there is a limit to energy density, i.e. a maximum possible energy density in the universe, and if a big crunch can cause that level of energy density through the heat and pressure associated with massive objects, new physics could come into play that leads to the burst of a big crunch.

Are we alone ?

Probably not.

Only one Universe ?.

Yes, but there could be multiple arenas each like our expanding observable universe within a greater universe. If the Big Bang was preceded by a big crunch then there could be multiple Big Bangs each preceded by a big crunch. For that to be the case though, a big crunch would have to be a common occurrence. That would suggest that a big crunch could form when two or more expanding arenas, each similar to our expanding universe (multiple universes) expand and intersect with each other. The overlap of two expanding universe-like arenas would interrupt the expansion momentum of each expanding arena. When the expansion momentum is interrupted, gravity would overcome expansion and the galaxies that are mixing and merging in the overlap space would swirl and collapse into the new center of gravity to form a new big crunch.

Do universes collapse and recycle over again ?.

They do if there are multiple arenas that overlap and if the galactic material in the overlaps collapse into big crunches.

 

Like I said though, there are many alternative ideas about what came before the Big Bang and so it is a matter of opinion as to which alternative is more likely.

 

And then too, standard theory, i.e. BBT with inflation implies that both space and time began with the Big Bang. Most people will tell you that BBT does not actually say there was such an event. BBT with Inflation and General Relativity start 10^-43 seconds after whatever event occurred to cause the initial expansion of our observable universe so what came "before" is said to be an invalid concept because if time started at the instant of the Big Bang then there was no "before".

 

I still like the big crunch alternative myself.

[Tolmosoff]

Brain-in-a-vat :

 

yes the Big Crunch can recicle itself.

 

Tousand years is like one day and one day is like thousand years. In the ever creation there is an end.

revelations in bible said and i saw great calamity in the heavens where giant planet bodies collided and fell back into itself.

 

Can that be the Big Crunch ?.

 

If all of our universe fell back into itself takeing us with it and back into that one nuclear atom of gravity and heat.

Then only at that time it reaches ( Top Dead Center ). You know your cars engine does the same big bang.

Pur universe is a four stoke engine.

 

Intake, commpression, power, exhaust.

 

Intake takeing all matter in the big crunch back into top dead center of your

engine.

Commpression is the big crunch reaching criticle mass.

 

Power stoke is the big bang igniting all nuclear fussion.

 

Exhaust stroke is the expantion of gasses causeing time to occure in an empty cyliner and space in then reocupied with all known elements.

Like atoms creating atom, carbon the main building blocks to form matter.

 

Ah the word ( CARBON ) exhaust at the end of your tail pipe. unused gasses , water and etc.

 

You know very well that all planet matter was gasses of polution.

Yes our universe was formed from polution of that big bang.

 

But not to worry thrillion years from now when our universe runs out in the end of that cylinder we call the engine.

 

At that point of top dead center our universe will recycle its self into a brand new universe.

Don't know how many times our universe ( Re - Cycled ) in the past of time.

 

Not to preach religion but the big bang is the God Atom at top dead center.

 

Have your wife start your car with your nose at the tail pipe and you will see creation recycled, the carbon exhaust and all elements that make up from from the big bang of your engine.

 

There is such an anomoly as The Big Crunch and the point of ( Recycled ) universe material. The universe as our only universe is but one universe. And there are countless universe in the Bathtub with bubbles.

 

HEY !!! I am only a retired Almond grower, Blue Diamond Almonds.

 

Guess my brain is somewhere among our stars.

[Martin]

...Not to preach religion but the big bang is the God Atom at top dead center.

 

Have your wife start your car with your nose at the tail pipe and you will see creation recycled, the carbon exhaust and all elements that make up from from the big bang of your engine.

 

There is such an anomoly as The Big Crunch and the point of ( Recycled ) universe material. The universe as our only universe is but one universe. And there are countless universe in the Bathtub with bubbles.

 

HEY !!! I am only a retired Almond grower, Blue Diamond Almonds.

 

Guess my brain is somewhere among our stars.

 

Hi Tolmosoff, I see this as more of an individual poetic vision of the Cosmos and falling more in the line of Speculation, rather than ordinary science cosmology.

 

That is not to say it's bad! I like your graphic imagery, of the twostroke or fourstroke combusion engine, and the Particle being the moment of highest compression, when the Spark fires. It is a beautiful metaphor that draws together many meditative and visionary strands of thought.

 

Since it is more speculation than actual science, more verbal imagery than mathematical model that one could fit numerical data to, I will move the thread to Spec forum.

 

Honey roasted almonds are my favorite but there is also a smoke salty tasting kind that is very good. Diamond is the highest quality, so you can be rightfully proud of being a grower for them.

[Daecon]

Isn't asking "What came before the Big Bang" like asking "Where were you before you were born"?

 

Are we alone? It doesn't seem very reasonable to assume we are, so I suspect not.

 

Only one Universe? Cyclic Universe? It's an option, but there's not enough information either way to say for sure or not.

[Martin]

Isn't asking "What came before the Big Bang" like asking "Where were you before you were born"?

...

 

In contemporary models the big bang is not the beginning of the universe, so it is not like asking "where were you before you were born?"

 

It is more like asking what conditions were like before the Milky Way galaxy formed.

 

Or what was there before the solar system formed?

 

Or what was there before life evolved?

 

In these cases it is possible to arrive at some models that are at least in principle testable and which reconstruct the past.

[Tolmosoff]

I think all matter in our universe been recycled many times.

 

The big bang whipes out everything that existed before.

 

Say you buy a new car and drove the crap out of it and was time for a trade in. You took the junker to a scrap yard and was melted down.

 

So then a year later you went shopping for another car to drive.

 

You then realised the new car that you bought was that same metal from your last junker.

 

In that case the universe was always around but then the great Big crunch exhausted its use and all fell back into itself to top dead center in the combustion stroke of gravity and heat , elements and chain reation went into Big Bang mode.

Ignited our universe again to form time and space again.

 

Yes, life and all planets formed from the gas poluted exhaust in the carbon building blocks.

We are the star stuff from knoxious gasses from Exhaust Polution or left over gasses that made us.

 

Also the space inside the cylinder got empty until the intake stroke of new gasses and material from the big crunch.

 

Our universe has always recycled itself to becme a new universe.

[throng]

What came before the Big Bang ?. Are we alone ? Only one Universe ?.

 

Do universes collapse and recycle over again ?.

 

I think if we think of inevitability as 'it could be' we have possibility as a root cause, but before possibility is where it's really at, impossibility.

 

If we prior possibility... there is no potential.

 

And then, in terms of absolutes, if only the truth existed as a singular fundamental of reality, it would have no definition, having no comparitive.

 

In all, If there is an infinite field of possibility, impossible is inevitable too, thus an infinite possibility is impossible, unless they are the same, which they are, being absolutes.

 

I think it pertains to how when perspective sees past in the distance, perception is simultaneous regardless of proximity to an event, as light is constant as energy conveyance.

 

Now it could be nothing, it could be a single thing, there's no relative difference. It could be two things the same, there's no difference between them. They are like one, which is uncomparitive like nothing.

 

So there's like this primal value where perception can't distinguish, because no comparitive seperation is possible and there's a big 'could be this that or the other two'.

 

This/that are absolute opposites and the other two are the same, which is no different to this or that.

 

Just a conceptual observation.

Edited June 8, 2009 by throng