Hypothetical Milk Experiment

[Green Xenon]

Hi:

 

Please don’t get upset at me. I posted something similar in the past. I apologize profusely if anyone is annoyed by what might seem like a repetition of that post. However, if you read carefully, you’ll clearly notice some significant differences.

 

The following is a speculative experiment with milk. It contains sci-fi elements that are not possible in physical reality. Still fun to think about though.

 

A sample of fresh, raw, microbe-free, annatto-free, preservative-free, carrageen-free, carrageenan-free, polysorbate-free, purely-natural, completely-organic milk of healthy happy Jersey cows [who graze solely on natural organic pesticide-free pasture] is teleported to a processor that removes any and all of the following:

 

1. Metals [such as calcium], electrolytes, ions, and halogens [such as chlorine]

2. Lipids

3. Greasy, oily, waxy substances not classified as lipids

4. Oxides

5. Fatty acids

6. Glycerol

 

After the above 4 are removed, any and all proteins are broken down to amino acids. Next, any acidic amino acids are removed. Amino acids that are alkaline or pH-neutral remain.

 

The milk is then teleported to an air-tight, vibration-proof container that does not let in any light when closed.

 

This container is as good of a conductor of heat as a cotton pillow.

 

It then traps “my favorite bacteria” in the milk and lets them metabolize substances in the milk and then emit waste products. Then a mysterious entity makes “my favorite bacteria” invincible to the toxic effects of their own wastes. After finishing up all the milk, the bacteria emit their wastes and stop multiplying. The mystical power then causes the bacteria to become dormant.

 

At no point does any foreign object other than “my favorite bacteria” enter the milk. No mold, no yeast, no mildew, no dust at all.

 

Next, phantom* versions of “my favorite bacteria” enter the container and feed on the dormant bacteria until there are no more dormant bacteria. The phantom bacteria then emit their waste products. Finally, these phantom bacteria completely disappear.

 

*Phantom bacteria have the chemical properties and consume/emit chemicals similar to the “non-phantom” bacteria. However, “phantom” bacteria themselves are massless and do not take up any space.

 

I wonder what the milk [if you can still call it “milk”] will smell like once all the above processes are complete.

 

The following are what constitute “my favorite bacteria”:

 

They are completely non-pathogenic, non-acidogenic [i.e. don't produce acid(s), don't lower the pH of any environment, don’t produce any acidic substances, don’t produce any hydronium/hydrogen ions or protons], non-coagulating [i.e. don’t cause any coagulation or curdling of any substance], non-toxic, and non-allergenic. In terms of respiration, they are facultative-anaerobes [can use oxygen but don't need it], obligate anaerobes [can only survive in total or near-total absence of oxygen], or aerotolerant-anaerobes [can survive in oxygen but don't use it for respiration].

 

No obligate aerobes [need oxygen to survive and can withstand high levels of oxygen] or microaerophiles [need oxygen to survive but in small amounts and will die if exposed to the high oxygen levels tolerable by obligate aerobes, facultative-anaerobes, and aerotolerant anaerobes].

 

No gram-negatives either. They can be gram-positive or gram-neutral but not gram negative.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Green Xenon

[gonelli]

Are you intending to theorise about what the imaginary mixture will look/smell/taste like after the above mentioned process? Or whether certain parts of your process are possible (like the "phantom bacteria" idea or even the mysterious entity)?

[Green Xenon]

Are you intending to theorise about what the imaginary mixture will look/smell/taste like after the above mentioned process? Or whether certain parts of your process are possible (like the "phantom bacteria" idea or even the mysterious entity)?

 

 

I'm just interested in what the end result will smell like, if [against all odds] everything in my initial post of this thread were to happen.

[gonelli]

I'm just interested in what the end result will smell like, if [against all odds] everything in my initial post of this thread were to happen.

 

I think that would depend on the metabolisms the various bacteria and mysterious entities are using.

Edited June 6, 2009 by gonelli
typo

[Green Xenon]

I think that would depend on the metabolisms the various bacteria and mysterious entities are using.

 

I'm guessing [though I might be wrong] there would be a mixture of the following odoriferous substances:

 

1. Amines

2. Sulfur compounds [e.g. thiols, mercaptans, sulfides, etc.]

3. Skatole

4. Indole

5. Diacetyl

6. Acetoin

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Merged post follows:

Consecutive posts merged

I'm guessing [though I might be wrong] there would be a mixture of the following odoriferous substances:

 

1. Amines

2. Sulfur compounds [e.g. thiols, mercaptans, sulfides, etc.]

3. Skatole

4. Indole

5. Diacetyl

6. Acetoin

 

Am I on the right track?

[GDG]

A very peculiar thought experiment.

 

After you've removed all of the components you've specified from the milk, you have basically only lactose and casein left. Although, casein might fall under "greasy non-lipid compounds", which would leave you with nothing but lactose. That might still smell mainly like milk. After you break the casein (if present) down into individual amino acids, I suspect the product stinks -- amines generally do not smell very pleasant.

 

After your favorite bactiera have digested the remainder (and I am not aware of any bacteria that would thrive in the absence of at least a bit of iron, calcium, etc.), I imagine the result would smell like crap, in the literal sense of the word. The exact odor would depend almost entirely on the nature of your hypothetical bacteria (and the phantom bacteria). Given just how speculative this is at nearly every step, I don't think you can expect more of an answer than that. There's just not much we can extrapolate from.

[CharonY]

Well, as GDG mentioned, if the medium would be truly only milk proteins and lactose, there will be no bacterial growth.

And just btw., it is easier to take water and just add the components you want than start with a complex mixture and then selectively remove things. Also I am wondering what the question really is about. Do you mean what kind of bacterial fermentation pathways are available starting from amino acids and/or lactose ?

Much will be moved towards the pyruvate or acetyl-coA which then can be used in a given fermentative pathway. Common endproducts are acetate, propionate and butyrate

Lysine can be fermented to butyrate and acetate and ammonia. Pyruvate itself can, of course, be moved to the TCA cycle, and so on. Lactose is likely to be cleaved to glucose and galactose and proceed from there.

 

If the question is to what amino acids can be theoretically be degraded (not coupled to fermentation per se) then of course the possibility of compounds will be much vaster. However, in the hypothetical medium it is unlikely to happen, as it is not really suitable for bacterial growth. Coupled to energy conversation, however, the above mentioned compounds are most commonly found.

[Green Xenon]

Also I am wondering what the question really is about. Do you mean what kind of bacterial fermentation pathways are available starting from amino acids and/or lactose?

 

I'm trying to generate a condition in which any/all odorous substances resulting from the bacterial decomposition of milk are completely non-acidic. Usually milk decay causes an increase in acidity.