In dire need of help (Math Phobia) :(

[mathphobia]

Okay here goes.

 

All my life I've avoided doing basic mathematics. I am completely inumerate.

 

It all started at primary school when my family started moving around allot and I missed out on so much. At school I was often given work I couldn't cope with and I've developed a psychological block when it comes to adding or subtracting numbers. I just freeze up and picture myself in year 4 again in front of other kids, struggling to answer a question. Needless to say I played up in secondary school and truanted so often that my attendance was never above 63%. I consider myself lucky that I'm a person who devours fictional books, at least I can say I am literate.

 

Over the years I've tried to help myself by buying self help mathematical books, attending numeracy courses, and through general research. The PROBLEM is no one really knows the extent of my ignorance, and therefore I always end up doing something beyond my level, even if it is basic. I'm DETERMINED to make maths work for me, I know it can be fun. But if I try again I want to make sure I start from the bottom. I want to know how to do addition, subtraction, multiplication and division without using a damn calculator! I honestly had a hard time adding 3+5 this time last year.

 

On a different note, I've been dipping into the self help section again, I've only just realised (shock horror) there is a difference between numeracy and mathematics. I've also noticed how the curriculum today supports the use of calculators to do everything. This is not what I want. I don't just want to know all the clever methods and rules behind numbers, I want to know HOW and WHY. I want to be able to do it, not rely on a calculator. I want to understand maths, not just memorize.

 

My uncle promised to 'tutor' me. He has a PHD in engineering and doesn't want to see me on the unemployment register (as a matter of fact neither do I). So far what we have done together has been an American version of math fundamentals covering Numbers and Place Values, and some basic additon, but I've called a halt because I just want a BRITISH turn on things. Dare I say it, I've been enjoying what we have been learning, but worry about the long terms effects of continuing with the American syllabus.

 

Please, help me. I need advice about which sort of books to buy for people who are completely inumerate.

 

I am however, not sure any of them will provide me with basic arithmetics. One seems to mention the calculator rather too early for my liking. The other two I am not so sure about.

 

But anyway, could anyone offer advice to somone in my posistion? I'm desperate to begin correcting my ignorance, and as soon as I get started the better; time is precious.

 

I will also add that if you just want to scorn me or generally take the ****, please don't bother posting here. My skin is as hard as bark.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Okay, first: I admire your determination. I know a lot of people who would rather say "Yeah, I suck at math" and use it as an excuse. Being a (recently graduated) high school student, I can say I probably saw that attitude every day in some form or another, and it's refreshing to see someone determined to learn what's needed.

 

First, we need to know the extent of your current skills. You say most courses overestimated your abilities, so before we try to help, what are your abilities? What simple mathematics can you do, and what problems leave you stumped?

 

Perhaps with that information we'll have a good idea of where to start.

[D H]

I've also noticed how the curriculum today supports the use of calculators to do everything.

That's a good thing. You will not always have a calculator on hand to give you the answers, and if you do have a calculator, you will not know if the answer is correct (you might have made a mistake pushing the buttons).

 

So far what we have done together has been an American version of math fundamentals covering Numbers and Place Values, and some basic additon, but I've called a halt because I just want a BRITISH turn on things.

We both speak English, and the basics are pretty much the same in any language. Math is math, afterall.

[mathphobia]

 

First, we need to know the extent of your current skills. You say most courses overestimated your abilities, so before we try to help, what are your abilities? What simple mathematics can you do, and what problems leave you stumped?

 

 

What CAN I do? Well, I understand the Unit Ten Hundred and Thousand system very well, and can tell you what any number is. I know what a digit is or figure is, that the concept of zero is an absence of count, that a number is a way of telling how many units there are, place value is the value a DIGIT gets in a number from right to left, and a unit means ONE os something.

 

Basic Group (Units Tens Hundreds)

Thousands

Millions

Billions

Trillions

Quadrillions

Sextillions

Septillions

 

Then I forget what comes next..

 

And that's about it. I've had minimal practice with adding single digit numbers, but I know the remaining count needed to make 10 for all numbers; which I thought was the basics of addition, making things up to 10 and adding the remainders? That's about it. Everything else I have hardly ever done in all my time at school. *sigh*

 

Oh and I know how to use brackets! 65+74=(70+30)+30+5+4= (100+30)+5+4= 130+(5+4) = 130+9 =139

 

That's as far as I go without practicing double digit addition... and I'm not so fast at working it out in my head either..

Edited June 18, 2009 by mathphobia

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Well, adding single digit numbers is usually just a matter of practice and intuition. Practice it a lot and you should start remembering things and developing a "feel" for how they should add up. You can, of course, get out some pennies and try "adding" groups together so you can see how they add up, but it's really just practice.

 

For two-digit numbers and larger, there's a simple method which is what I learned in elementary school. Yes, it's cumbersome and it takes practice, but it's just a stepping-stone -- eventually you should be able to do without for small enough numbers.

 

I'll try to do some more research and find guides on the rest of basic arithmetic if I can. But for now, my only advice is this: practice. In elementary school they had us do timed addition and subtraction tests, worksheets, workbooks, and pretty much any form of practice possible -- find a way to turn it into a game or a routine and you'll be able to get practice in anywhere.

[mooeypoo]

You know, I saw you wrote that you are not interested in the "Tricks", but I think you should consider this book regardless: "Secrets of Mental Math" by Arthur Benjamin, Michael Shermer and a forward by Bill Nye (the science guy!)

(http://www.flipkart.com/secrets-mental-math-arthur-benjamin/0307338401-htw3fsmkne)

 

I am a physics student, and as one I need to know math quite well and it's very helpful to do some calculations in your mind. Though this book is called "tricks" in math, it's *explaining* those tricks, and giving you actual methods on how to practice on mental calculations (without a calculator, and when you're getting better at it, with practice, without a paper too). It's not cheating, it's learning methods of calculations that are making the process a bit easier.

 

For example, one of the "tricks" is to calculate a double-digit number times 11. The "trick" is that the answer is a three-digit number that has the two digits around the sum of those digits. Like:

22x11=242 (2+2=4)

36x11=396 (3+6=9)

13x11=143 (1+3=4)

And so on (gets a bit different when the sum is larger than 9 but I'll leave that for the book to explain

 

In any case, my point is that the above "trick" is only a trick if you don't understand *WHY* this works. At the end of the book, the author(s) work out the method to explain why this happens, which makes you also understand how the process works. The byproduct is that you understand the process *AND* you can do it faster.

 

If you are starting out with these things, you might as well start out with methods that will help you calculate the basics quicker for the next steps. The book is mainly dealing with basic math (pretty good methods about how to add and subtract large numbers or how to multiply 2-3 digit numbers). It's *pretty* basic but if you practice, you can learn the math while impressing people around you.

 

Check this book out. Other than that, it's really about where to start.. there are many levels to maths, and for us to help you we will need a bit more information on what you are currently comfortable with.

 

Good luck

 

~moo

[mathphobia]

Well, adding single digit numbers is usually just a matter of practice and intuition. Practice it a lot and you should start remembering things and developing a "feel" for how they should add up. You can, of course, get out some pennies and try "adding" groups together so you can see how they add up, but it's really just practice.

 

For two-digit numbers and larger, there's a simple method which is what I learned in elementary school. Yes, it's cumbersome and it takes practice, but it's just a stepping-stone -- eventually you should be able to do without for small enough numbers.

 

I'll try to do some more research and find guides on the rest of basic arithmetic if I can. But for now, my only advice is this: practice. In elementary school they had us do timed addition and subtraction tests, worksheets, workbooks, and pretty much any form of practice possible -- find a way to turn it into a game or a routine and you'll be able to get practice in anywhere.

 

I have been following these units http://www.mathfundamentals.com/milestones.html which I really do like; but I am British and in order to pass british tests I need to work with our currency (£ the pound) and definitions, not American ones. I've been thinking of buying an abacus, but once again we do not use the abacus much in our curriculum here, much to my distaste: Using a virtual abacus has helped me so much.

 

Another problem we have in Britain is the watered down subjects within our schools, and some things have dissapeared completely from the standard that was set years ago, especially in our math framework.

---

Merged post follows:

Consecutive posts merged

You know, I saw you wrote that you are not interested in the "Tricks", but I think you should consider this book regardless: "Secrets of Mental Math" by Arthur Benjamin, Michael Shermer and a forward by Bill Nye (the science guy!)

(http://www.flipkart.com/secrets-mental-math-arthur-benjamin/0307338401-htw3fsmkne)

 

I am a physics student, and as one I need to know math quite well and it's very helpful to do some calculations in your mind. Though this book is called "tricks" in math, it's *explaining* those tricks, and giving you actual methods on how to practice on mental calculations (without a calculator, and when you're getting better at it, with practice, without a paper too). It's not cheating, it's learning methods of calculations that are making the process a bit easier.

 

For example, one of the "tricks" is to calculate a double-digit number times 11. The "trick" is that the answer is a three-digit number that has the two digits around the sum of those digits. Like:

22x11=242 (2+2=4)

36x11=396 (3+6=9)

13x11=143 (1+3=4)

And so on (gets a bit different when the sum is larger than 9 but I'll leave that for the book to explain

 

In any case, my point is that the above "trick" is only a trick if you don't understand *WHY* this works. At the end of the book, the author(s) work out the method to explain why this happens, which makes you also understand how the process works. The byproduct is that you understand the process *AND* you can do it faster.

 

If you are starting out with these things, you might as well start out with methods that will help you calculate the basics quicker for the next steps. The book is mainly dealing with basic math (pretty good methods about how to add and subtract large numbers or how to multiply 2-3 digit numbers). It's *pretty* basic but if you practice, you can learn the math while impressing people around you.

 

Check this book out. Other than that, it's really about where to start.. there are many levels to maths, and for us to help you we will need a bit more information on what you are currently comfortable with.

 

Good luck

 

~moo

 

Different levels of maths? I'd say primary year 1, or in America, Elementry school Grade 1 ... :/

 

And I think that what you've just suggested is cheating particularly for me. What you're asking me to do is jump to triple digit numbers with methods that don't explain how to get there, and won't build any mental brain power for me. Without knowing the standard ways numbers add up or subtract and understanding WHY and HOW, I don't think I'd buy into it.

Edited June 19, 2009 by mathphobia
Consecutive posts merged.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

I have been following these units http://www.mathfundamentals.com/milestones.html which I really do like; but I am British and in order to pass british tests I need to work with our currency (£ the pound) and definitions, not American ones.

Fortunately you'll find that math with pounds and dollars is identical; now that the pound is decimal, instead of having all those goofy shillings, you don't need any separate math. So just pretend the problems use £ instead of $.

 

I'll look around for other good websites and books and see what I can find.

[insane_alien]

a good one would be when shopping, try and add up a total price as you go along and see if you can get it right when you go to pay for it(i used to bug the hell out of my mum doing that when i was wee, i hadn't discovered my 'inside voice')

 

bonus points if you work out how much change you should get before the guy at the till tells you.

 

while you're getting started, using pen and paper is acceptable but you should aim to not need that eventually.

 

this, along with normal practice should help you get a good feel for addition and subtraction.

 

also, a bookshop like borders or waterstones probably has childrens math workbooks which you could work through, if it can teach children(and you can put up withthe completely unrealistic scenarios i remember them giving you) then they can teach adults. i have no idea if they produce an adult version of those but you could maybe ask.

 

i admire you for your persistance, i know a few people in a similar situation but they keep giving up when they can't seem to get some part. keep at it and you'll get there.

[mooeypoo]

Let me ask you a practical question, and please don't take offense.

 

I want to see what your level is, and - to be honest - I don't care about knowing the names of things. I come from a different country and didn't know the name of most math definitions either, that's the "easy" part to learn (you just read about them, basically).

 

I want to know where you are in terms of actual math level, as opposed to where you migth think you are.. does that make sense?

 

I want to write out a few relatively basic mathematical drills. Could you tell me (a) if you can do each? (b) how hard do you feel it is to do each? © how long, approximately, does it take you?

 

And, yes, don't use a calculator You don't have to give me an answer to any of them, just tell me how hard you find each of them.. I'll have a better idea of where you are in your math skill..

 

 

• 2 + 12
  
• 100 / 2
  
• [math]\frac{2}{3} + \frac{4}{3}[/math]
  
• 124 + 102
  
• [math]\frac{1}{3} * \frac{4}{2}[/math]
  

I'll start with these, and might ask you further depending on your difficulty level. Please try to indicate how hard each of these questions are and if you think you can solve them. Don't be shy and don't take this personally -- we will just ahve a better understanding of where we need to start helping out when we know where you think your trouble is

[mathphobia]

Fortunately you'll find that math with pounds and dollars is identical; now that the pound is decimal, instead of having all those goofy shillings, you don't need any separate math. So just pretend the problems use £ instead of $.

 

I'll look around for other good websites and books and see what I can find.

 

I have ordered these books

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Understanding-Maths-Mathematics-Explained-Studymates/dp/1842850865/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245370135&sr=1-2

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adult-Learners-Guide-Numeracy-Chambers/dp/055010321X/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245370189&sr=1-3

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mathematics-Minus-Fear-Lawrence-Potter/dp/0714531154/ref=pd_sim_b_1

 

I am ideally looking for thourough practice with Whole Numbers and Place Values, which should cover the basic four operation Addition, Subtraction, Division and Multiplication. Or rather called Arithmetics (or numeracy?) :S

 

I THINK this will form the basis for everything and having solid mental math skills is something I want above all else.

---

Merged post follows:

Consecutive posts merged

Let me ask you a practical question, and please don't take offense.

 

I want to see what your level is, and - to be honest - I don't care about knowing the names of things. I come from a different country and didn't know the name of most math definitions either, that's the "easy" part to learn (you just read about them, basically).

 

I want to know where you are in terms of actual math level, as opposed to where you migth think you are.. does that make sense?

 

I want to write out a few relatively basic mathematical drills. Could you tell me (a) if you can do each? (b) how hard do you feel it is to do each? © how long, approximately, does it take you?

 

And, yes, don't use a calculator You don't have to give me an answer to any of them, just tell me how hard you find each of them.. I'll have a better idea of where you are in your math skill..

 

 

• 2 + 12
  
• 100 / 2
  
• [math]\frac{2}{3} + \frac{4}{3}[/math]
  
• 124 + 102
  
• [math]\frac{1}{3} * \frac{4}{2}[/math]
  

I'll start with these, and might ask you further depending on your difficulty level. Please try to indicate how hard each of these questions are and if you think you can solve them. Don't be shy and don't take this personally -- we will just ahve a better understanding of where we need to start helping out when we know where you think your trouble is

 

[*] 2+12 = 12+2 = 14 (a) I can do this one. (b) Easy. © 1 second perhaps

 

[*]eh, I THINK that the answer is 20 (a) barely able to © it took me a little time to figure out.

 

[*] blank (a) I can't do this one. (B) blank © blank

 

[*] (100+100) +20 +4+2 = (200+20) +4+2 = 220 + (4+2) 220+6 = 226 (a) can do. (b) fairly easy © fairly fast, but it depends on which way I do it.

 

[*] blank (a) can't do. (b) blank © blank.

Edited June 19, 2009 by mathphobia
Consecutive posts merged.

[mooeypoo]

Okay, this gives us a place to start

[*] 2+12 = 12+2 = 14 (a) I can do this one. (b) Easy. © 1 second perhaps

Great! So "simple" adition seems to be easy.

 

[*]eh, I THINK that the answer is 20 (a) barely able to © it took me a little time to figure out.

Okay, so division is a problem. We have a starting point

 

[The answer, btw, is 50. The idea is to "divide" 100 to 2 equal parts = 50. 50+50=100, which means 50*2=100.]

 

 

[*] blank (a) I can't do this one. (B) blank © blank

I see that this and the fourth one -- both dealing with fractions -- are problematic. That's another point we can work on.

 

[*] (100+100) +20 +4+2 = (200+20) +4+2 = 220 + (4+2) 220+6 = 226 (a) can do. (b) fairly easy © fairly fast, but it depends on which way I do it.

Great! that's the way to do it It's also a fairly easy way to do it in your head, it just requires a lot of practice. Your method is "left-to-right" (which means you are calculating the hundreds first, then continuing on towards the right side) which is easier to do in your head.

 

Keep practicing on that one

 

[*] blank (a) can't do. (b) blank © blank.

Right, fractions.

 

Okay, so division and fractions (which are very close to one another) are a problem. Let me try and narrow the playing field a bit more.. if I asked you what 0.2 + 0.3 is equal to, is this difficult for you?

 

Let me try and look up some basic tutorials for you, and think about where to start. I wouldn't be discouraged if I were you. For one, you're not 1st grade elementary school (you can add 3-digit numbers).

[mathphobia]

Okay, this gives us a place to start

 

Great! So "simple" adition seems to be easy.

 

Okay, so division is a problem. We have a starting point

 

[The answer, btw, is 50. The idea is to "divide" 100 to 2 equal parts = 50. 50+50=100, which means 50*2=100.]

 

 

I see that this and the fourth one -- both dealing with fractions -- are problematic. That's another point we can work on.

 

 

Great! that's the way to do it It's also a fairly easy way to do it in your head, it just requires a lot of practice. Your method is "left-to-right" (which means you are calculating the hundreds first, then continuing on towards the right side) which is easier to do in your head.

 

Keep practicing on that one

 

 

Right, fractions.

 

Okay, so division and fractions (which are very close to one another) are a problem. Let me try and narrow the playing field a bit more.. if I asked you what 0.2 + 0.3 is equal to, is this difficult for you?

 

Let me try and look up some basic tutorials for you, and think about where to start. I wouldn't be discouraged if I were you. For one, you're not 1st grade elementary school (you can add 3-digit numbers).

 

Hehe, well, I finally discovered that what I need is Elementry Arithmetics, starting from Addition and Subtraction, and working towards Multiplication and Division. Fractions and what not should come later?

[mooeypoo]

Hehe, well, I finally discovered that what I need is Elementry Arithmetics, starting from Addition and Subtraction, and working towards Multiplication and Division. Fractions and what not should come later?

 

Yes, fractions and division/multiplication are an extension, of sorts, of addition. So they should come later. You seem to have a good basis for addition and subtraction, though. I'd get some practice on addition/subtraction and move on to multiplication and division.

[mathphobia]

Yes, fractions and division/multiplication are an extension, of sorts, of addition. So they should come later. You seem to have a good basis for addition and subtraction, though. I'd get some practice on addition/subtraction and move on to multiplication and division.

 

I just found these amazing arithmetic books from the 18th century.

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rays-new-intellectual-arithmetic/dp/0880620528/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245374281&sr=1-4

 

Take a look inside

 

They even have the full set.

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rays-Arithmetic-Series/dp/0880620501/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245374281&sr=1-3

 

Looks promising for developing strong skills.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Neat. I've found that there are some older books that are very good at showing you exactly why things work in math, although they may focus a bit too much on memorization as well.

 

As insane_alien suggested, once you learn the method you just need to start practicing. I hope those books work out for you.

[mathphobia]

Neat. I've found that there are some older books that are very good at showing you exactly why things work in math, although they may focus a bit too much on memorization as well.

 

As insane_alien suggested, once you learn the method you just need to start practicing. I hope those books work out for you.

 

The only problem I am having is finding a solid book that offers a complete syllabus. It's all fine and dandy practicing things bit by bit but I still need the 'lessons' wether they have been written down in a book or taught. I still need to be able to look at tutorials and then practice. So far it's proved very difficult getting a complete syllabus for elementry arithmetics and tutorials for each topic..

[mooeypoo]

You know, you might be able to find lessons online - either paid video lessons or from a school.

 

Worth a try.. and it might be a lot simpler and more comfortable for you to work at this with a tutor that goes by your level rather than buying lots of books and do it yourself.

[DJBruce]

In my opinion once you understand the concepts behind basic math like addition and subtraction it simply becomes practice. I remember that when I was in elementary school everyday we did a thing called the Mad Minute. It was a sheet with 40 problems ranging from a addition to division and you had one minute to do it. I would suggest that once you learn the basics you practice with things like that. They make online versions like Math Magician. I would also suggest that you work slowly in steps making sure to be proficient in one skill before moving on to the next. Good luck with this, I truly hope you reach your goal.

[mooeypoo]

Yes, and I have to say that one of the things I keep reffering to even today (when my math is relatively high-level as a physics junior), is the basic table of multiplication. The fact I was forced to memorize it (up to 10) helps me today a LOT, from figuring out simple stuff like 7*8, to simplifying complicated mathematical computations.

 

You should go over addition and subtraction and practice practice practice.

 

Multiplication is basically multiple additions (so 2+2+2+2+2 will be 2*5)

Division is an extension of multiplication (so if 10*5=50, 50/5=10 and 50/10=5)

 

The magic word, as you can see, is practice. Start *strong* - with addition and subtraction, feel comfortable with them as much as you can, and go on to multiplication and subtraction.

 

When you're done with these, you'll see how things like fractions are going to be very easy to get into. Even functions, which are a "higher level" mathematical concepts, will be MUCH MUCH easier to understand if your mathematical basis is strong.

 

Also, it is a lot about confidence. Once you have the basics, you'll feel more confident in your abilities, and less mathophobic

 

Share if you have any questions or clarifications or examples you want us to help you with, btw. It might be a bit hard for us to give you a gazillion drills to practice (PRACTICE is the key word!! but if you have questions or if you want to bounce off terminology and its definition, etc, please feel free to share with us.

 

~moo

[mathphobia]

It is very difficult finding a structured introduction to arithmetics on the internet. I'm forced to learn from too many different sources instead of one consolidated framework.

 

Trying to translate wikipedia is sometimes quite difficult, because I have to keep diving into a dictionary. And it's also rather inconsistant due to the fact that it's edited by many different people.

 

I suppose what I am really looking for is a book with math lessons in it designed for the student, covering Whole Numbers and Place Value, Addition, Subtraction Multiplication and Division. Is there such a thing?

 

Finding a maths book that offers just this is turning out to be a nightmare.

[the tree]

Yeah, Wikipedia isn't the best place to study maths at a basic level, it's maths articles are very good but often pretty advanced. Honestly I'd just go for a regular GCSE textbook, (do you have a maths GCSE already?) numeracy helps with algebra and algebra helps with numeracy.

 

As far as practising addition and multiplication - it genuinely does help to write out tables for them. Try to time yourself, see how quickly you can write out a multiplication and addition table for numbers 1-12.

[iNow]

Out of curiosity, have you run a google search along these lines:

 

online math curriculum

 

 

I mean, one would presume that something there is gonna be useful to you.

[mathphobia]

Yeah, Wikipedia isn't the best place to study maths at a basic level, it's maths articles are very good but often pretty advanced. Honestly I'd just go for a regular GCSE textbook, (do you have a maths GCSE already?) numeracy helps with algebra and algebra helps with numeracy.

 

As far as practising addition and multiplication - it genuinely does help to write out tables for them. Try to time yourself, see how quickly you can write out a multiplication and addition table for numbers 1-12.

 

I do not have a maths GCSE; I'm very much below that level. I cannot express how ignorant I am, the only word I can use is inumerate. As far as mathematic books go, I haven't found ANY that start off with Primary Arithmetics in a structured way. For example most maths books do not explain that adding single digit numbers up to ten first by 'borrowing' from the other number in the sum, and then adding the amount left over, is the key principle and why you do it. I had no idea how to add single digit or double digit numbers a few months ago, in my head. And some books don't even introduce the place value system before getting onto the four basic operations; nor do they even introduce the number line and integers or negative numbers, and yet it's plunged straight into addition and subtraction!

 

Grrr..

Edited June 19, 2009 by mathphobia

[the tree]

Learn Direct maybe?

 

A lot of the time - you need to work through a lot of examples so that you get an understanding of why a method such as long multiplication is used.