Atomic Radii

[elas]

Your first post in this thread said "The e:N line is smooth indicating that it determines atomic radii, "

Now you are saying "I never claimed the amount the atomic radius is affected by the number of neutrons was large or small"

If the number of neutrons determines the atomic radius then it has to be a big effect.

In fact it's tiny as I already pointed out, with data, twice.

 

A misunderstanding has occured mainly due to the way I worded the statement referred to. Before replying further I intend to complete the search for the data referred to in the references mentioned in my previous reply. UK subjects will know that it usually takes about six weeks to obtain copies of journal papers from the British Library, therefore some delay in reply is unavoidable.

[Klaynos]

A misunderstanding has occured mainly due to the way I worded the statement referred to. Before replying further I intend to complete the search for the data referred to in the references mentioned in my previous reply. UK subjects will know that it usually takes about six weeks to obtain copies of journal papers from the British Library, therefore some delay in reply is unavoidable.

 

Is there not a university library near you you can visit?

 

I'm in the UK, and I have never got a journal from the BL because they are far far too slow, if I had to wait 6 weeks for anything I don't have an electronic copy of I would never get any work done!

[John Cuthber]

"A misunderstanding has occured mainly due to the way I worded the statement referred to."

While you wait for the reply from the BL, why don't you tell us what you thought you meant?

 

The references won't tell you anything new.

There's an effect of neutron number on atomic radius but it's tiny and already explained in terms of zero point energy.

 

Incidentally, does the fact that you are now looking for references mean that you were previously posting stuff for which you had no evidence?

It certainly looks that way to me.

[elas]

mr = G/2 shows that all elementary particles are compactions of a single elementary particle, it has been shown that the equation mr = G/2 also applies to composite particles and astronomical bodies; the only exception (due to their unique shell structure) being atoms. Therefore it is necessary to show that atomic nuclei are compactions, and determine the cause of compaction.

 

Isotopes of 4Be have one halo neutron and therefore one to six nuclear neutrons; as the volume of the halo neutron is far greater than the volume of the nucleus, it is clear that nucleons and halo neutron are in different compaction states.

 

Graph 1 illustrated that there is some relationship between the number of inner field electrons and the number of neutrons. On each shell the number of inner electrons remains constant while the number of neutrons increases opening up the possibility that neutrons play a part in determining atomic radii. The graph on reply No. 10 illustrated that possibility. The aim now is to show that the latest research allows a small advance to be made.

 

A paper by W Nortershauser et al (arXiv:0809.2607v4 [nuc-ex] 5 Feb 2009) contains a graph (fig.3) that shows how the nuclear charge radius of Be changes with changes in the number of neutrons. On the atomic charge compaction scale changes occur on a larger scale; there is a radius at which the number of neutrons is sufficient to prevent collapse which is close to the limit of radial expansion, the determining factor being the ratio of inner field electrons to the minimum number of (isotope) neutrons; adding more neutrons adds macroscopically to the radius of stable isotopes; further additions leads to instability and decay.

 

The graph below illustrates that changes that take place on the atomic compaction scale follow the same pattern as changes that occur on the nuclear compaction scale. The number of inner field electrons is divided by the minimum isotope number and compared with the atomic radii. The graph by Nortershauser et al does not have any data for 9Be (second from left) removing the data for the equivalent entry on the atomic graph gives the position shown by the dashed red line for comparison with the ab inito No Core Shell Model line on the graph by Nortershauser et al.

 

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Merged post follows:

Consecutive posts merged

Is there not a university library near you you can visit?

 

I'm in the UK, and I have never got a journal from the BL because they are far far too slow, if I had to wait 6 weeks for anything I don't have an electronic copy of I would never get any work done!

 

Nearest Uni.librarydoes not carry journals. Access to journals via internet subscription services, not open to public; students can search for abstracts but need permission from tutors to download full copies.

[John Cuthber]

"mr = G/2 shows that all elementary particles are compactions of a single elementary particle"

Explain what that means, then prove it.

Then, maybe, I will bother to look at the rest of it.

[elas]

"mr = G/2 shows that all elementary particles are compactions of a single elementary particle"

Explain what that means, then prove it.

Then, maybe, I will bother to look at the rest of it.

 

 

See:

http://www.scienceforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=40962

[insane_alien]

explain it here.

 

incase you haven't noticed, majority opinion is that you are talking a lot of bollocks. are you going to provide anything other than crap contextless and unitless graphs(with unknown data source)? not to mention the flat out wrong and inconsistent dat you have used earlier?

 

and the fact that anyone with an education relating to this field immediately calls bullshit on you?

[elas]

explain it here.

 

incase you haven't noticed, majority opinion is that you are talking a lot of bollocks. are you going to provide anything other than crap contextless and unitless graphs(with unknown data source)? not to mention the flat out wrong and inconsistent dat you have used earlier?

 

and the fact that anyone with an education relating to this field immediately calls bullshit on you?

 

See reply 4 on page 1 then go to

http://openlearn.open.ac.uk/course/view.php?id=2708

sec. 3.2 and note that I do give referrences where required.

 

Please note that this is a debating forum not a slanging match. Because some of my relations work in the education field, I occasionally get the opportunity to debate my ideas with interested parties but, cannot refer them to Science Forums because replies like yours are a source of embarrassment; objections, counter arguments and constructive criticisms carry more weight when they are worded with restraint.

Edited July 23, 2009 by elas

[Klaynos]

Nearest Uni.librarydoes not carry journals. Access to journals via internet subscription services, not open to public; students can search for abstracts but need permission from tutors to download full copies.

 

What a very odd practise.

[John Cuthber]

"Please note that this is a debating forum not a slanging match. "

OK, so put the stuff you want to debate in the forum or stfu.