Stimulus Patience

[iNow]

My mistake, regardless, the point that continues to escape you is: The oversight panels are not keeping up with the money trail and the tax payers money is disappearing. One could objectively deduce that the same could possibly happen to the stimulus money, the longer they take to spend it the higher the chances.

<...>

Sheesh.

 

Slippery slope is not a valid form of argument here.

[navigator]

Slippery slope is not a valid form of argument here.

 

What happened to intellectual honesty? Does it exist in this forum?

 

Is this your idea of quality political discourse?

[iNow]

What happened to intellectual honesty? Does it exist in this forum?

 

Is this your idea of quality political discourse?

 

Ad hominem and deflection are ALSO not valid forms of argument.

[navigator]

You posted an article on TARP then went on to rag about the Stimulus.

 

Do you realize the two are different?

 

How is this not deflection?

 

It is completely irrelevant to the origin of the impatience due to the oversight committees not keeping up with how money is spent.

[DJBruce]

What happened to intellectual honesty? Does it exist in this forum?

 

Is this your idea of quality political discourse?

 

Yes their is a lot of intellectual honesty, but the use of logical fallacies is strictly against the rules, See Section 2: Rule 4.

The use of logical fallacies to prove a point is prohibited. The use of fallacies undermines an argument, and the constant use of them is simply irritating.

 

If you post fallacies you will normally be called out on it.

[navigator]

Yes their is a lot of intellectual honesty, but the use of logical fallacies is strictly against the rules, See Section 2: Rule 4.

 

 

If you post fallacies you will normally be called out on it.

 

And following the same course of action and expecting a different result has several definitions, insanity is one.

 

Is it a logical fallacy that people learn from their mistakes?

 

Obviously Obama hasn't, instead hes telling the people to just be patient.

[iNow]

More off-topic and baseless assertions.

[navigator]

More off-topic and baseless assertions.

 

How is it off topic? They are following the same course of action with the stimulus money as the did with the Tarp money, in the context of using the oversight committees to keep up with where the money goes, and expecting a different result.

[bascule]

How is this not deflection?

 

It is completely irrelevant to the origin of the impatience due to the oversight committees not keeping up with how money is spent.

 

Can we at least get on the same page here? You're talking about TARP, not the Stimulus, right?

 

This thread isn't about TARP. The link you posted is. You seem to be talking about TARP as well.

 

If you would like to talk about TARP perhaps you could find a relevant thread or create your own.

[navigator]

Can we at least get on the same page here? You're talking about TARP, not the Stimulus, right?

 

This thread isn't about TARP. The link you posted is. You seem to be talking about TARP as well.

 

If you would like to talk about TARP perhaps you could find a relevant thread or create your own.

 

 

My point was, how can Obama expect people to be patient with the stimulus spending, when the oversight committees have been unable to keep track of the Tarp money and addmitted to not knowing where much of it was spent?

 

Also, Obamas real motivation could be waiting until the 2010 elections get closer, which would be disingenuous. Given his reputation for honesty and transparency it is a reasonable suspicion.

[GutZ]

I would say you are put an unrealistic expectation on Obama to state exactly to amazing detail as how the stimulus package will work out. The man can't read the future.

[iNow]

Since we are speaking of the Recovery Act, and not the TARP, and since we are talking about where it's getting spent, I thought perhaps I could wrestle this off-topic jaunt back inline with the thread by posting this:

 

http://www.recovery.gov/

 

 

Yep... we sure are blind to how each and every dollar is being spent.

[navigator]

I would say you are put an unrealistic expectation on Obama to state exactly to amazing detail as how the stimulus package will work out. The man can't read the future.

 

I am not asking him to do that. I am asking him to do what he said in his campaign regarding strict oversight panels. The evidence has shown that his implementation of these panels has failed.

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Merged post follows:

Consecutive posts merged

Since we are speaking of the Recovery Act, and not the TARP, and since we are talking about where it's getting spent, I thought perhaps I could wrestle this off-topic jaunt back inline with the thread by posting this:

 

http://www.recovery.gov/

 

 

Yep... we sure are blind to how each and every dollar is being spent.

 

Do you believe everything the Obama administration tells you? I am sure there is some truth in there, but what about the people who actually work in the panels, I wonder how easy it was for them to come forward and say woops, we screwed up?

 

Don't you think if there was any possible excuse they would have jumped on it?

[iNow]

The evidence has shown that his implementation of these panels has failed.

Ermm... No, it hasn't. This is yet another baseless assertion from you.

 

 

Do you believe everything the Obama administration tells you?

My... you're just one big well poisoner, aren't you? How about you respect the request I've made of you like ten or twelve times already and stop making everything personal and laden with invective? Focus on facts, and you will convince others.

 

Right now, you're not convincing anyone about anything except your ability to engage in logical fallacies and argue off-topic.

[navigator]

Ermm... No, it hasn't. This is yet another baseless assertion from you.

 

a special inspector general over the program reported last month. The "very credibility" of the program is at stake, it said.

 

Pretty strong words, but you have your perspective of them and I have mine.

 

But I can asure you, I am not the only one concerned when Obama says to be patient. And it has nothing to do with the plan, rather the longer its implementation takes, the more chances money will slip through the cracks. Washington is loaded with greedy bureaucrats with sticky fingers.

 

 

My... you're just one big well poisoner, aren't you? How about you respect the request I've made of you like ten or twelve times already and stop making everything personal and laden with invective? Focus on facts, and you will convince others.

 

You play games, I call it as I see it.

 

Right now, you're not convincing anyone about anything except your ability to engage in logical fallacies and argue off-topic.

 

[iNow]

Pretty strong words, but you have your perspective of them and I have mine.

And I can see that, despite the five or six times you've been corrected, you're still talking about TARP.

 

Minus one more on your credibility.

[navigator]

And I can see that, despite the five or six times you've been corrected, you're still talking about TARP.

 

Minus one more on your credibility.

 

 

Yes, because the oversight committees for the TARP money have told Obama there are major problems. It seems he would address this regarding the stimulus money, instead he wants us to be patient.

 

Why are you so concerned with my credibility?

[iNow]

Yes, because the oversight committees for the TARP money have told Obama there are major problems. It seems he would address this regarding the stimulus money, instead he wants us to be patient.

This is another baseless assertion, as you have no idea what Obama is doing/has done to address the oversight issues, and to correct the mistakes made with TARP so as to avoid them with the Recovery and Reinvestment Act. Further, while it may not be 100% perfect for all readers, I've already presented a major step forward in this context by sharing how the administration has opened the recovery.gov webpage.

 

It's also a bit of a false dichotomy, as those are hardly the only two options available to the administration which you've presented above.

 

Yes, patience is important. We're going to continue seeing unemployment, as that's a lagging indicator, and we're going to continue to see shifts in the overall economy for some time to come. However, we've pulled out of the nose dive, things are leveling off and getting better, and will continue to do so at a steady rate since the spending was spread out over a longer term.