Sisyphus Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 It's not balanced. Empty bucket goes down, bucket full of oil comes up. Oil is not weightless. It is, in fact, less efficient than other types of pumps, but any pump has to lift the weight of what it's pumping. You can't get energy from nothing. However, if you just pour water into the hole, the oil, which is lighter than water, will come to the surface, with no energy used. (Or rather, you're just using the potential energy of the weight of water decreasing in height.)
infinitesolid3 Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 I believe i am true. Merged post follows: Consecutive posts mergedIt's not balanced. Empty bucket goes down, bucket full of oil comes up. Oil is not weightless. It is, in fact, less efficient than other types of pumps, but any pump has to lift the weight of what it's pumping. You can't get energy from nothing. However, if you just pour water into the hole, the oil, which is lighter than water, will come to the surface, with no energy used. (Or rather, you're just using the potential energy of the weight of water decreasing in height.) what do you do when it's full of water?
insane_alien Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 (edited) However, if you just pour water into the hole, the oil, which is lighter than water, will come to the surface, with no energy used. (Or rather, you're just using the potential energy of the weight of water decreasing in height.) what actually happens is we pump water down. this makes the process faster than just letting it come up by itself. the result is less energy is used than it would take to lift the oil out at a similar rate. EDIT: what do you do when it's full of water? then the well is depleted and there is no more oil down there to remove. Edited July 20, 2009 by insane_alien Consecutive posts merged.
Phi for All Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 How small can you make a bucket? how fast can you make the buckets spin?The smaller you make them, the less oil is brought to the surface. The faster you drive the chain, the more energy you use to bring up smallere amounts. The smaller the bucket, the easier it is to damage. The faster you make the chain go, the more easy it will be to break it. If the buckets are metal to make them strong, you risk striking rocks that may cause a spark. How would you dig the hole wide enough for your system? What would you use to shore up the sides so they don't cave in? Please understand, we're not making fun of you, or trying to discourage you, we're pointing out flaws that would keep your idea from working. You have to remember, in order to switch to your system, it has to be more attractive to investors in some way, either cheaper to use, easier to use, less environmental impact, etc. It has to be better than the way it's done now.
infinitesolid3 Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 It's not about whose the cleverest, it's about a cleaner world!
Fuzzwood Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 I believe i am true. Then provide valid proof instead of sounding like a broken record
infinitesolid3 Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 The smaller you make them, the less oil is brought to the surface. The faster you drive the chain, the more energy you use to bring up smallere amounts. The smaller the bucket, the easier it is to damage. The faster you make the chain go, the more easy it will be to break it. If the buckets are metal to make them strong, you risk striking rocks that may cause a spark. How would you dig the hole wide enough for your system? What would you use to shore up the sides so they don't cave in? Please understand, we're not making fun of you, or trying to discourage you, we're pointing out flaws that would keep your idea from working. You have to remember, in order to switch to your system, it has to be more attractive to investors in some way, either cheaper to use, easier to use, less environmental impact, etc. It has to be better than the way it's done now. however it is pumped, drilled ect, theres a hole going down, use buckets, its so efficient i don't believe you can see it.
insane_alien Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 buckets are not efficient, infact, they are ASTOUNDINGLY inefficient. if buckets WERE so efficient then we wouldn't use pipes, water would be transported in buckets everywhere, in your car there would be a line of buckets from the fuel tank to the engine and so on. notice how there are no bucket lines everywhere to transport our liquids? thats because pumping it through a pipline with a centrifugal or reciprical pump is MUCH more efficient than a batch process like buckets.
Phi for All Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 however it is pumped, drilled ect, theres a hole going down, use buckets, its so efficient i don't believe you can see it.Right now a hole is drilled, say 15" wide and 5000 feet deep, and when oil is found, they put a 14" pipe down the hole. Your bucket system seems to need at least 5 times that space, and the biggest drills are only 36" wide. How are you digging down 5000 feet at 6-8 feet in diameter, what equipment would you use? And what material are you shoring up the sides with so the hole doesn't collapse?
infinitesolid3 Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Right now a hole is drilled, say 15" wide and 5000 feet deep, and when oil is found, they put a 14" pipe down the hole. Your bucket system seems to need at least 5 times that space, and the biggest drills are only 36" wide. How are you digging down 5000 feet at 6-8 feet in diameter, what equipment would you use? And what material are you shoring up the sides with so the hole doesn't collapse? how small can you make a bucket? how fast can you make them spin? how much petrol to drive the engine? Merged post follows: Consecutive posts mergeduse as many buckets as needed.
insane_alien Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 1/very small 2/not very fast at all 3/lots. and all of these result in it bein a shitty way to bring oil up from down an oil well. tell us how this is better than the centrifugal pumps currently used
infinitesolid3 Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 1/very small 2/not very fast at all 3/lots. and all of these result in it bein a shitty way to bring oil up from down an oil well. tell us how this is better than the centrifugal pumps currently used you could spin it few hundrad miles per hour if you wish. So far can only get so deep compared to engine size. My design can go down further,
insane_alien Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 tryspinning a long loose chain at 100mph. just remember to stand well back aas the shrapnel will travel quite far.
infinitesolid3 Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 tryspinning a long loose chain at 100mph. just remember to stand well back aas the shrapnel will travel quite far. a motor bike has a chain, which goes fast, it's about physics.
insane_alien Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 yes, motor bikes have a higly tensioned chain that is maybe a meter long, 2 meters at most and only on a ridiculous bike. motor bikes and oil wells are not comparable.
infinitesolid3 Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 yes, motor bikes have a higly tensioned chain that is maybe a meter long, 2 meters at most and only on a ridiculous bike. motor bikes and oil wells are not comparable. The mechanics are the same.
insane_alien Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 only in principle, but with a 2 mile long chain the weakness of the materials plays a huge role. try replacing the motorbike chain with wet tissue paper and see what happens. because a two mile long steel chain will behave in a similar manner. stuff like this doesn't scale very well.
infinitesolid3 Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 you may be right there, have to use steel wire, if it's profitable?
insane_alien Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 wire is potentially worse as there will be metal fatigue fairly soon. you know how bending a paperclip back and forthe a few times snaps it, that sort of thing. so its going to need replacement every few months especially considering the extreme loads put on it. and that means removing the entire rig. thats going to take months itself to complete. and be extremely costly. there is no way it would be more profitable than a big centrifugal pump.
infinitesolid3 Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 there is no way it would be more profitable than a big centrifugal pump. true, about wear. But can go down further to get more petrol. Merged post follows: Consecutive posts mergedHow much more profitable is the question. Any college or university is welcome to test my design.
insane_alien Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 no, it can't go further down, your design is limited by the tensile strength of the wire/chain which also limits the maximum speed. the pumping system is limited by how deep we can drill and/or how much pipe you have available. aswe can drill to the bottom of oil deposit and then some, this is not a limiting factor, and pipe supplies are effectively unlimited as well, this is not a problem. and pumping systems can work in off shore deposits too. and anyway, displacing the oil with water means you only have to pump from the top of the oil field rather than drilling to the bottom as with a chain pump. less work involved.
infinitesolid3 Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 the pumping system is limited by how deep we can drill and/or how much pipe you have available. It comes down to engine size too, how big an engine can you put out to sea?
insane_alien Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 you don't need a very big engine for the current pumping system. a 1 MW engine is more than capable of pumping sufficient oil out. with your design you need a hell of a lot of torque as one side of the chain is going to be massively heavier than the other. and you'll need a lot of power as you are merely lifting stuff without replacing it. you'd probably be talking 50-100 MW.
infinitesolid3 Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 if you have a 2 mile tube, thats a lot of petrol to lift just to get a drop. Think how fast the engine is running at.
insane_alien Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 we have told you several times already, the pump is at the top, it does not lift the oil but it pumps water down which makes the oil FLOAT up out the top.you could even turn the pump off and let gravity do all the work for you but that would make the flow rate too small. the pump is only there to speed it up. your design does not work at all without a very large and powerful engine. typical centrifigal pump speeds on this scale at 600-1200RPM. but that doesn't really matter, what matters is the power you require for pumping. which is quite low considering the torrent of oil you get out of it.
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