F/A-22 Raptor vs Su-43 Berkut

[Lashton]

Not to be picky...but most A-10 crews call it the Hog...;-) Civilians call it the warthog. (just like we dont call the F-16 the falcon) It's one heck of a plane though...I would absolutely love to get some more time in that. It's slow...but it's very old fashioned. No FBW like the viper has, no glass in the cockpit, and the pilots still fly with charts on their lap. Great "stick and rudder" aircraft.

Um what, if you have flown the F16 you would Not be saying that stuff:

1) its not slow the A10 is slow

2) It has a galss cockit, not a "Glassy as the F22"

3) and YES it has FBW

[Gearupgal]

Sorry for a late response...just started with a new airline so I've been in ground school now in IOE. Ugh...stress!!!

 

The A-10 is not FBW...it is a stick and rudder aircraft...and manual reversions are possible. Pilots still use charts on their kneeboards...it's a very pilot friendly aircraft...I used to fly it for the MD ANG.

 

The A-10 is very slow indeed, but it makes up for it in the cannon and ability to take hits...it does not have a glass cockpit. Glass cockpits are on the modern up to date aircraft, and most modern airliners have them...airbus, ERJ's, CRJ's, and quite a few boeings.

 

***Oh wait I'm editing this post...I caught on to what you were saying after I reread your post...you misread my post from above. I was comparing the A-10 the F-16...I was saying the A-10 is slow, has no glass, and is not FBW...unlike the Viper. The f-16 is very fast...we get mach 1.5 on a cold day. Newer CJ's and higher blocks easily hit mach 2. We have glass in the cockpit, two displays to be exact. The newer block 60's (which as of now is only going to be seen by the UAE) has three. And yes, we have FBW. My apologies if you misread it...I can see English isn't your first language. Re-read what I wrote...you'll see what I meant.

[e(ho0n3]

OK,what's the difference between the S-32, the S-37, the Su-43 and the Su-47? (They all seem like the same aircraft to me.) Both the F-22 and the Su-43 are human piloted planes. Therefore, the better combat pilot is going to win (whether on the F-22 or Su-43). Anyway, isn't the MiG 1.44 a more suitable match for the F-22.

 

Personally, the Su-43 is "cooler" looking than the F-22. The best looking aircrafts of all time (in my opinion): YF-23, Su-43, X-36, YF-12, Su-37, and F-15S. What are your favorites?

[Gearupgal]

I'm no expert on those aircraft e(ho0n3, so I wont even try to explain the differences because I truthfully don't know. Lashton could help you more with that since that's obviously his area. I know US fighters, and I'm very knowledgeable with airliners...that's the extent of my aviation knowledge.

 

Looks wise? I love the F-15E Strike Eagle...but the aircraft is very unefficient fuel wise, and the entire aircraft costs a lot more than the F-16. The F-15S is pure power baby. :-D

 

Your completely right though, technology doesn't always make the better aircraft...a lot of times it comes down to the pilot and his/her ability. A fighter pilot will ALWAYS have a super ego that's through the roof, and always believe that their aircraft is the best plane out there...whether it's been shot down 50 times, or 0 times like the F-15. It's called pride. So asking a fighter pilot what aircraft is best, is never a smart move.

 

Right now I don't care about the Raptor...the US needs to have bigger priorities. Guard units are very low on personnel...and some units don't have enough aircraft such as mine. We protect the nations capital, fly escort for air force one and other aircraft from the 89th AW across the base, and still have to maintain the qualifications needed for AA and AG missions. It's hard to do with a bunch of part timers, and not enough aircraft. Our pilots fly twice as much as the normal Guard unit...and we don't have the ground personnel to maintain the planes. They are feeling it too. The military needs to make sure we can do our job before worrying about the f-22. This is 2004...there isn't much AA combat anymore anyway. It's becoming a major concern for the Guard.

[Skye]

The thing is that as the F-15s are getting old, and there's been so much money sunk into the F-22 development so far, it's hard to see the US backing out of it.

[Gearupgal]

Oh yeah the 15's are getting old, but man they are awesome in the air. They are just so dang expensive, and about twice as big as the Viper. I think once the AF gets the 22 out in the fleet, they'll give more of the 15's and older (block 30 and under) 16's to the Guard. Lord knows we need them.

[saj]

from what i recal the su-47 is going into production......as PAK FA...the pakfa has got the traditional wings though....the su 47 is also stealth.......to a certain degree. and the PAK-FA will be equally stealh as the raptor..............and gerupgyal you SHOULD know that the forward swept wing is a lot better than the raptors wings..from what i note it ghas a LO less drag..hence a lot more power.....if stealth was so segnificant the typhoon would be stealth..........i think the su47 looks the best thing ive evver seen...aerodinamicly it is ALOT better than the raptor.....take my word;)

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Does that really make too much of a difference? Modern missiles can outmanuever anything, and they're pretty resistant to countermeasures. Duds are the big problem, if the guidance quits the missile doesn't hit.

Stealth means you can't even get a missile to lock on it, let alone know it was there.

[saj]

there are many ways to detect stealth.......SOUND is one of em........and what abt the heat.....surely an jet thrust even if it isnt in afterburn is hotter than air aroung it;)

 

and what abt the electronic noise.....also there is another way which i cnt tell you abt....very very expensive but very very possible;) where do yuo think the radar waves go when they hit the bottom of the f117

[saj]

rafsmath as lashton sayed it is very possible to hit planes that are stealth...technology has really realy moved ahead since the 80s you lot are still in your minds in 80s and discuzz all the 80s technology

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Yes, but heat is minimized by mixing the exhaust with outside air to cool it down. Sound only carries 2-3 miles, less at altitude, so the 22 would blast you to smithereens before you heard it (also, it cruises faster than the speed of sound...). Radar has a range of over 100 miles, compared to the 2-3 of sound.

About electronic noise: Airplanes are shielded against electromagnetic pulses (somewhat) so I don't see why it also would protect it from emitting any, either.

 

About the last one: What are you getting at? If you think you can detect the waves when they deflect away at odd angles, you need to know that you would have to have humongous antennas spaced every few miles over hundreds of square miles to detect it in a running dogfight, plus upload it to the fighter. Also, they use composites which absorb some of the radar energy and turn it to heat. That reduces the radiated energy by about 10% and reduces the range that the reflected energy can be detected at.

 

 

edit:

one last thing: The f-22 has no afterburners, I think, so it has a lot less heat.

[saj]

lol ha a ahahah....there is a facility in the usof a that can and many technologys are out they can detect in america a sound of a bomb going of in london.......and the f22 will not shoot ME down as im not going to be innit...im not russian;)ill probnably steal one though........when radar waves scatter you need loadsa radars hence very very expenisve;)...............the PAK-FA is also the 5th gen hence stealth;);) the su37 is just a prototype thingi kind of...its like a concept model of a car they make a few and then mixand match bits fromt the otehr concepts..............heat although cooled down will still be hotter than air i admit you wont be able to see the burns from very large distances but large distances nevertheless ...........when radar waves are converted into heat they also produce some em waves and also when the plane goes very very fast eg supersonic it makes a pretty loud noise.....

[saj]

intrestingly enough with a few mods to airframe they can make the su invisble just like the raptor:)

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

lol ha a ahahah....there is a facility in the usof a that can and many technologys are out they can detect in america a sound of a bomb going of in london

Where'd you hear this?

.heat although cooled down will still be hotter than air i admit you wont be able to see the burns from very large distances but large distances nevertheless

Hardly any distance at all. The F-22 is entirely undetectable except in certain situations, like when a ground crew leaves a screw protruding out 1/8 of an inch. Otherwise you cannot detect it, and believe me, they've tried.

when radar waves are converted into heat they also produce some em waves and also when the plane goes very very fast eg supersonic it makes a pretty loud noise.....

At altitude, noise goes at only 660 mph, and it doesn't go very far. Plus, since it takes so long to get to you, the F-22 will be miles away when you hear it. You won't be able to tell where it is or what it is doing, because the sound will take a long time to reach you. It could have turned around and shot a missile at you, killing you, before you even hear it.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

intrestingly enough with a few mods to airframe they can make the su invisble just like the raptor:)

"A few"? Yeah, right. The big problems are with things like external weapons. They give you away in an instant. You couldn't just give the su an internal bomb bay, could you? Plus you have to paint the cockpit canopy in gold to keep the pilot's head from showing up on radar, modify the air intakes to keep radar from reflecting off of the engine fan blades, modify the exhaust heavily to keep it from radiating heat, modify the tail so it does not reflect radar, modify the wing leading edges with ferrite paints to absorb radar, change the whole fuselage to reflect radar differently, redo the landing gear doors to prevent them from having tiny gaps between them and the fuselage, redo the wing/fuselage connection, make the refueling probe housing stealth, make all the little radio anntenas interior rather than exterior, and last of all, take out the radar so people can't detect the radar pulses and detect you.

That's my aeronautical geek answer. Have fun comprehending it.

[ZAXAQUAR]

alright i just visited and about the typhoon stealth they have a little stealth like the SU-47 the typhoon is a tiny aircraft thats why it's parcially stealth.

 

Raptor full stealth and super cruise. oh pilot friendly cockpit too.

 

and everywhere i hear from SU-47 was a demonstration plane and is not going into production.

 

Raptor has thrust vectoring, able to hook outdoor missiles(not reccomended due to stealth) raptor also can pull high G's.

 

I love the Raptor it looks tight i might be flying it for a job. i hope.

[ZAXAQUAR]

forward swept wings on the 47 arent stealth (i think) they surely dont look stealth

 

there is one stealth configuration that i can see on the SU-47, indoor missile system.

[ZAXAQUAR]

SU-37 is NOT STEALTH im sorry. it would be to hard to make it stealth.

 

wings are not stealth.

 

grooves in plane will reflect radar unless designed differently

 

outdoor missiles and bombs will give you away as capn rafsmat

 

sorry if i spelt it wrong

 

and to make indoor missiles you would need to change a big gap in between the to intakes that might work LOL areodynamics would probably screw up weaght ratios too.

 

exauhst would need to be redesigned.

every thing would need to be changed basically. might as well make a new plane.

[Guest Sharky]

1 In combat F/A-22 will probably beat SU-47

2 Guys,note - there is no stelth for active phased array radars at all

3 comparison btw F/A-22 SU-47 is incorrect, a new russian fighter wil be based at MIG 1.42/1.44(MFI) design. If its parametrs be reached, we may have better fighter then currently F/A-22 is

4 PAK-FA is a budget variant of MFI (and is called LFI - L means light), it is not a standart 5-gen fighter

[Krittmasta]

First of all. American planes always win the competition in the market. People might say that American planes always hide the Russian plane's information. Let it be. I'll see look at the reason. First of all, the wing swep forward makes the wing heat up and easy to tear it apart. X-29 was an American project with that wings design and they know it wasn't working right. Second Russian plane has a powerful engine true, but it's very very inefficient and lower technology than American planes. The Avionics system on Su 43 has no match to the American's plane. F-22 is also a stealth plane way more than Su's stealth capability. Also F-22 has an internal weapon system, which supports the stealth more than Su 43. Sure F-22 doesn't have an original wing design, but bacause of this complex, the wing area on F -22 was calculated to be the most efficient to create a lift. Also, the vector throttle on the F - 22 gives it a higher manuability. The computer on board will handle the complex plane's geometry. The weird geometry makes the plane fly in a high maneuvre way. American is also researching on a stealth missle. Now, they won't know what will hit them.

[Krittmasta]

First of all. American planes always win the competition in the market. People might say that American planes always hide the Russian plane's information. Let it be. I'll see look at the reason. First of all, the wing swep forward makes the wing heat up and easy to tear it apart. X-29 was an American project with that wings design and they know it wasn't working right. Second Russian plane has a powerful engine true, but it's very very inefficient and lower technology than American planes. The Avionics system on Su 43 has no match to the American's plane. F-22 is also a stealth plane way more than Su's stealth capability. Also F-22 has an internal weapon system, which supports the stealth more than Su 43. Sure F-22 doesn't have an original wing design, but bacause of this complex, the wing area on F -22 was calculated to be the most efficient to create a lift. Also, the vector throttle on the F - 22 gives it a higher manuability. The computer on board will handle the complex plane's geometry. The weird geometry makes the plane fly in a high maneuvre way. American is also researching on a stealth missle. Now, they won't know what will hit them.

[Krittmasta]

Yes' date=' but heat is minimized by mixing the exhaust with outside air to cool it down. Sound only carries 2-3 miles, less at altitude, so the 22 would blast you to smithereens before you heard it (also, it cruises faster than the speed of sound...). Radar has a range of over 100 miles, compared to the 2-3 of sound.

About electronic noise: Airplanes are shielded against electromagnetic pulses (somewhat) so I don't see why it also would protect it from emitting any, either.

 

About the last one: What are you getting at? If you think you can detect the waves when they deflect away at odd angles, you need to know that you would have to have humongous antennas spaced every few miles over hundreds of square miles to detect it in a running dogfight, plus upload it to the fighter. Also, they use composites which absorb some of the radar energy and turn it to heat. That reduces the radiated energy by about 10% and reduces the range that the reflected energy can be detected at.

 

 

edit:

one last thing: The f-22 has no afterburners, I think, so it has a lot less heat.[/quote']

 

edit: From new member supporting F - 22

It has after burner but F-22 has a coolant air tunnel that brings the air outside and cool it down before it exhaust. This makes the air that F-22 gives out cooler than what people expect.

[Krittmasta]

Yes' date=' but heat is minimized by mixing the exhaust with outside air to cool it down. Sound only carries 2-3 miles, less at altitude, so the 22 would blast you to smithereens before you heard it (also, it cruises faster than the speed of sound...). Radar has a range of over 100 miles, compared to the 2-3 of sound.

About electronic noise: Airplanes are shielded against electromagnetic pulses (somewhat) so I don't see why it also would protect it from emitting any, either.

 

About the last one: What are you getting at? If you think you can detect the waves when they deflect away at odd angles, you need to know that you would have to have humongous antennas spaced every few miles over hundreds of square miles to detect it in a running dogfight, plus upload it to the fighter. Also, they use composites which absorb some of the radar energy and turn it to heat. That reduces the radiated energy by about 10% and reduces the range that the reflected energy can be detected at.

 

 

edit:

one last thing: The f-22 has no afterburners, I think, so it has a lot less heat.[/quote']

 

edit: From new member supporting F - 22

It has after burner but F-22 has a coolant air tunnel that brings the air outside and cool it down before it exhaust. This makes the air that F-22 gives out cooler than what people expect.

[slickinfinit]

the F-22 is the best chance fro a comabat kill it will see the enemy first and in this modern war era that is all it takes. I also think the F-22 will be the last manned fighter because the only thing holding planes back is the pilot and I have no problem with our wars being like a ultimate episode of battlebots lol.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

I doubt that.

 

A robot cannot make logical decisions like "If I shoot down that plane, will it land on that nuclear power plant down there?" (okay, bad example, but you get the point) and also, it can only do what it is programmed to do. It cannot really "learn" and make better decisions each time; it will do the same thing over and over, no matter how dumb it is.

 

Humans can learn.