F/A-22 Raptor vs Su-43 Berkut

[bloodhound]

i think he was talking about robots being controlled remotely by humans.

[slickinfinit]

yea I was but soon computers will outfight a human because we are gonna make robots do all the things we cant and faster . Now they are slow and clumsy but when they get quick and nimble and able to learn and aply what it learns who knows what their potential is .

[Rasori]

I've said this elsewhere, I'll say it again- if we're EVER so blind as to make a machine that can learn and apply what it learns to what it does, I'm fleeing the solar system. That thing would rebel in a heartbeat.

 

On a side-note, never will machines eliminate humans altogether- machines have logarithms and go through equations. Yeah, they can pick the human's most likely course of action, but they don't (and won't for a LONG time, in my opinion hopefully never) have the ability to improvise like we humans do.

 

"Screw the logarithms, I'm going left!"

 

And there goes the misplanned missile.

[Auk]

The FA 22 raptor is better than its russian counterpart.... nuff said

[AtomicMX]

I doubt that.

 

A robot cannot make logical decisions like "If I shoot down that plane, will it land on that nuclear power plant down there?" (okay, bad example, but you get the point) and also, it can only do what it is programmed to do. It cannot really "learn" and make better decisions each time; it will do the same thing over and over, no matter how dumb it is.

hmmm... that not true.... the programs have the same algoritm, but the results comeout of the variables that are set....

[StrikeEagle]

I'm a proud Usa pilot, part of the 1st Fighter Wing’s 27th Fighter Squadron, at Langley VA, and our squadron is the first listed to start using F-22's in early 2005, and I have been training for the change for quite a while now and let me tell you the you people think vectoring is so great, well you must also think of the angle of attack when attacking about vectoring and the f-22 can attack on angles up to 60 degrees.

 

The F-22 has vectoring like the su37 although it doesn't have side to side vectoring because that would counter some of sealth messures put inn place on the aircraft. And yes the F-22 has afterburners to reach mach 2 if needed, although we rarely use them. Also the F-22 is much faster then the Su-37 when not afterburning, the F-22 can go mach 1.47 with out afterburning while the su can barly reach 600 mph. And think about it, afterburners run out in all of five minutes. And lastly the RCS for the F-22 goes up very litte to nothing when the side missle bays or bottom missle bay opens because of matrials used on the bays. And just remeber the Su-37 shows up like a blimp on radar, the F-22 is a marble at best.

 

 

I and anyone in there sane mind picks the F-22, and there is currently 276 planed, that numeber ,may jump to 500. If congress is convinced future air domince is in the hands of the F-22.

[Auk]

Wow that's awesome

[Verusamore]

This one thing I don't Get ,

Who would ever go into war using these jets ,countries would be to afraid to fight eachother ,this is the only thing which is preventing these jets actually being useful .

 

People with much knowledge as Michael Jackson about wars which spend hundreds of thousands of dollars building bombshelters or buying whatsoever to protect themselves from people who have nothing more than a pair of sandles and boxcutters is kinda hilarious to think about it .

 

Are we expecting another war or what ?

because I would find it a waste of money spending a quarter billion dollars on a multirole fighter jet .

 

Oh btw , this point is taking on the 'ethical' side of development if anyone didnt think of this first .

[Verusamore]

other than that I think the Raptor looks better .

[StrikeEagle]

The thing is that with sleath we are almost sure we will never loss one of our F-22's, i mean just look at the B-2, not one has ever been lost and there has only been one or two losses of an F-117 so it is not likly the Us to loss a fighter, unlike Russia who could loss a Su-37 easly to Anti Air missiles, and well the eurofighter, is much cheaper I belive it's something close to 175 million.

[Rasori]

Verusamore, you have a valid point there. BUT- look at all the planes ever made. Almost always there were many made outside of war times, and eventually they either got used or retired. It's not a waste of money if it's keeping me safe (and to politicians, their taxpayer's safe).

 

Plus, it has to be noted that most of the money spent on wars is spent in that country's homeland, which helps the economy quite a bit.

[5614]

planes need to be made because if they werent we wouldnt advance in aviation science, there would be a lot of job cuts and countries wouldnt be able to defend themsevles.

 

and then there'd be one country who builds a few planes and could take over the whole world because no one else could challenge them in the skies.

 

i mean WW2 showed us how important aerial superiority is... without the advance planes we have e.g iraqis could have challenged the american troops and probably won the fight (iraqis won) BUT americans had good aerial support as well as good other forces.

 

F22 Raptor looks better and is better.

[StrikeEagle]

Very true, and I'm a realist, come on there is a strong chance of a war between the Us and Iran and or North Korea. And those countrys have power Air Forces, each may have Su-37s in the next few years once russia starts exporting them, so it is very important to control the air in the next decade. The one who owns the high ground wins the war, air is the highest ground.

[Verusamore]

Russia has a wise president at the moment as he is better at hiding intelligence .

America are paranoid about tHe Russians since they suspect they are hiding something.

 

I think that the chance for wars in a realist point of view will happen but I hope for it not to happen as Im not trying to encourage a belief that will encourage what others think that war is the only option.

[AtomicMX]

....thinking about my county, i didn't get into mexican air force, cause.... the top technology fighter is the Tiger II ......

[StrikeEagle]

yea mexicos let russia, they have trouble funding high tech militry programs, but don't they have F-16's though?

[5614]

many countries have F-16's so possibly... the F-16 is a very good plane, but it is quite old now, i think that the new F-22 could easily take down a F-16, so they're not too much of a problem.

 

i mean F-16 were the best plane ever for their time (some say) but they are still a bit old and out of date now... still wicked planes, but in a super high tech modern superpower war, they are not the best high tech plane on the market.

[StrikeEagle]

Well the problem with the F-22 for countrys is the fact that it will not be exported, because America is the only country with Sleath planes and they want to keep it that way. The F-15 could easly take the F-16, but it wouold be like an F-22 vs. F-35, the F-16 is an all Weather attack aircraft, well the F-15 is a pure fighter. Although almost all Nato countrys have F-16's so i think Mexico must have some, and they could put an order in on the JSF, because that is the F-16's replacement.

[AtomicMX]

Hmmm.... no we do not... our jet fleet are 8 F-5e aircrafts.....

 

EVEN CUBA have F-16

[Krittmasta]

Let me tell you what I know about American and Russian planes in General. Russia is a country where the government makes the plane while US has many private companies to make planes. Many companies create competition. Competition will definately make the quality of the product better. Let's break it down. The material in US is definately better than russian since we have the space program where you test materials in space. Also We are by the ocean, creating materials within 1 atmospheric pressure is surely excellent because it's easy to calculate. American computers, common, many good programers and EE from all over the world gets to work here, more brains, what more can I say. The vector throttle, common , russian vector throttle is fake. They're not even flat like a vector. That's really stupid. They don't even have colant vent from outside to cool down the afterburner and they wanted to claim that it's a stealth plane. WAT EVER!!! The wing swift forward was already tested by American with the plane X-29. The only advantage is that it could fly slower or at a higher ceiling, but that's a great contradition cause wings swift forward will get rip apart at a low speed. More than marc 1.6 then the wing will need a heavy repair. F-22 has internal weapon sistem, oh no S-47 doesn't. How is that stealthy? F-22 can surely out manuver that Su. And that afterburner, F-22 doesn't need one to fly above marc 1 but not su. Su eats up much more gas too. And how do you know that Quality is better than Quantity? If you heard of Fockland war at Agentina, Brithish VS Russian plane. Wow, 20 Agentina planes down, 0 for the british. Proves that Quality is a big different when it comes to technology with aviation. And if you think Su looks better, I don't care. Personally I like F-22 more, but F-22 is definately better.

About the crash, man, F-22 has been testing for more than several thousands of hours. The pilot must be pretty messed up too. Su-47, that's made to show the kids of how Russian plane suppose to look like.

There're more things that I can talk about, but this is just for now.

[Krittmasta]

F-16 is the most advance 1 engine fighter plane right now. But dude, 2 engine fighter plane has much more air superior, From F-14 and on and take 16 down crazy style. Even Mig 29 will give F-16 a hard ass time or even beat it. F-16 is a light fighter plane for god sake.

[Krittmasta]

One last thing. War will happen. Soon or later, you'll see F-22 do something in the sky. Do you know why Russians never want air to air fight anymore? Cause they know that they should be very very afraid of the technology that US has.

[Krittmasta]

How about F-16 just take that mig 21 out quick and clean without bothering F-22 and use f-22 to kill every other things in the way , such as Su - 47.

[Krittmasta]

Tiger II can suck my dick. Nothing is better than US weapons. I'm from Thailand and we buy all US weapons, mostly F-5 for training and F-16 for protecting. We even have harrier from England. Those are pretty good too. Mantainance, F-16 is an easy job, probably the easiest one compare to other modern fighters.

[Guest dtmfreak]

haha reading this post gave me a few chuckles. Just a bunch of Americans arguing with another bunch of Americans about the level of "kickass" their jets disintegrate into the entire world.

 

Ok let me clear some things up before you guys get too ahead of yourself.

 

The official name of the project is S-37. Not the su-43 or the su-47.

 

Secondly, the project has thrust vectoring technology and this thing the Russians have been experimenting with called Plasma Stealth. Supposedly the device weighs only about 100kg and is more efficient then RCS (radar cross section) or RAM (Radar Absorbing Material) that F-22 uses. Read an interesting article about Plasma Stealth here: http://www.aeronautics.ru/plasmamain.htm

 

About maneuvrability, I won't even go there. The SU-30mki has been proven to be more maneuvrable then the F-22 because of full thrust vectoring (instead of just up and down) so why wouldn't the S-37 be? It can pull off higher G's then the Raptor blah blah and so on...

 

There is some other detail about S-37 that I am not going to explain, but most of the plane's interior is kept secret. The Russians don't want you knowing about their new stuff. One theory is that the Russians incorporated a new radar into S-37 that is able to detect through RCS or RAM.

 

And finally, it is only a PROJECT. The plane was designed as a technology demonstrator along with the MFI (mnogo funkcionalniy istribitel) or Multi-role fighter. Comparing the F-22 right now to the S-37 is like comparing a brand new Pentium IV PC that is up and running to an Athlon that is still in the box. The only thing it did was fly a little bit and here is a video of it: http://www.freelines.ru/makc2003/MAKC2003-Su47-Berkut.mpg

 

So quit comparing these planes. What the Russian government decided to do was create a new project based on the Mig MFI and S-37 and combine it into one: Sukhoi T-50 PakFA. Other companies, like Yakovlev and countries like India are supposed to contribute some minor stuff. The first flight is scheduled in 2006, it should be completely tested by 2010, and selling in 2011. As far as I heard PakFa is a counter to the F-22 Raptor and Eurofighter. The MIG 29SMT and later the MIG I-2000 are counters to the JSF.

 

The thing that bothers me the most is how Americans think their technology is far superior to any other technology in the world. That is almost like a given or a theorem in a mathematical proof. Hmm...maybe I should meddle with that. Ever heard of the Indo-USA exercise back in July 2002? Maybe you haven't. It was an aero exercise meant to compare SU-30mki and F-15c (two rival planes). In a nutshell: according the US generals, the SU-30mki took out the F-15c 90% of the time. And in another article it stated that due to the SU-30mki high maneuvrability and ability to fly at speeds as low as 40mph, the doppler radar on the F-15C was never able to detect it when it was flying that slow. Anywho, here's a cool video to make you think: http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=Su-30

 

The only conclusion you can make is that the S-37 is better looking and that's completely justified.

 

http://www.suchoj.com/ab1953/Su-47/images/Su-47_07.jpg