Would this be safe

[mikeasdfasdf]

if you plugged two wet wires into an outlet and held them close to each other they will buzz and then explode, which i think would be caused by the wires getting to hot.

If you wrapped the ends of each wire around large peices of pencil lead, then put the pencil lead close to each other would the same thing happen?

I don't think trying it would be too good of an idea without knowing what could happen..

 

If the lead is alot safer, i was going to use it to seperate water into 02 and h2 and then fill up a ziplock bag with the gases and blow that up.

[Lance]

I’m not really sure what you are describing but if you are trying to split water why not just find a step-down transformer?

 

Also the thin graphite from pencils is not very safe with a current flowing through it. It gets red hot then explodes propelling red graphite around at high speeds. I have a scar on my hand from pencil shrapnel at 24v and can only imagine how fast it would heat up with 120v(or 220) .

 

edit: also, it's safe to asume anything using mains electricity is not.

[mikeasdfasdf]

whats a step down transformer?

from google i gather it changes the amount of volts.

 

Could you explain how that would help me?

[Lance]

Step-down transformers lower the voltage.

 

A lower voltage would allow less current to flow thus making experimentation safe.

 

Just find one of those "wall wart" transformers and cut the output adapter off exposing the wires. Then just find some suitible electrodes and stick them in a glass of water.

[YT2095]

and mains power is AC and not very good for electrolysis, DC current is much better.

a simple 9 volt main adaptor will do the trick, or better still a 6 to 12 volt bike/car battery charger. the pencil leads will at best make a 1 Watt resistor at only a few Ohms at best, providing a near dead short still. remember also that as the water "fizzes" it`ll spray moisture up the pencil lead an onto the wires anyway. Avoid Direct Household mains elec! you`ll live longer )

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

if you plugged two wet wires into an outlet and held[/b'] them close to each other

With your bare hands? That's deadly in its own right.

[budullewraagh]

i dont think he meant with his hands.

[5614]

you need to hold it with an insulator to stop the electricty going through you!!! and the electricty might jump through the air between each wire [spark]

[mikeasdfasdf]

i had cut the power cord of some broken toy. then i just stripped the ends oftwo wires that were inside. taped the cord so that the wires were on opposited ends of a dish of water. then plugged it in. I made sure i was no where near the dish of water when it was plugged in. Still the wires got too hot and little peices of copper were embedded in my dish from the explosion.

[YT2095]

just out of curiosity, What was the dish made of?

[dryan]

If I were guessing, I'd say the dish was plastic.

 

If I were doing electrolysis and I didn't want to use batteries, I'd get an old AC adapter for some computer peripheral that has an output of 6v (this may be what mike is saying).

Put the two ends of the wires in a salt bath.

 

Personally, I'd just use batteries, because it is much safer. Electrolysis can be performed at 3v (two batteries), but will go a lot quicker at 6v.

[atinymonkey]

Incidentally, is this what caused the NY blackout? If it's how spare time is filled in the city, I can see the problems controlling the grid.

[Mr_Mediocre]

G'day Mike,

 

You need very specific conditions to go around splitting water. I wouldn't bother dude. And you don't wanna be messing with hydrogen gas anyway, could lose an eyebrow

or fringe (if you have one). If you would like to hear a big bang with very little flame/smoke then do this....

 

Get an oxy/acetylene welding set (two cylinders with a torch/gas outlet/burner). Turn on acetlyene and light the torch/gas outlet/burner with acetlyene ONLY, then ramp up oxygen content until you get a tight, blue cutting flame with no yellow in it. EXTINGUISH the flame (release lever) while leaving the cylinder regulators on the settings they were on for the blue flame. Get a balloon...

 

Fill the balloon with the blue-flame oxy/acetylene mixture until it is

 

*ONLY 5 cm ACROSS!! THIS POINT IS VERY IMPORTANT!!*

 

Go much bigger and you WILL BURST YOUR EARDRUMS, and that woudn't be good for anyone, least of all you. Tie the balloon to something OUTDOORS.

 

Get a LONG stick and strap a candle to the end of it. Light the candle. Ignite the balloon with the candle ON THE END OF THE LOOOOONNGGG STICK.

 

*bang*

 

It ain't no ordinary balloon. People (neighbours) may call the cops after they hear the bang, be warned.

 

Have fun

 

MM

[blike]

Be careful with the oxygen/acetylene bomb. Someone blew one up down here for the fourth of July that shattered windows and sent people to the hospital.

[Mr_Mediocre]

Amen blike! Remember NO MORE THAN 5 cm (2 INCHES) ACROSS the SKINNIEST cross-section for your balloon! You cannot be too careful! You don't wanna go through life deaf, or living with having sent other people deaf, or paying lots of $$ to other people you sent deaf. Go out to the country if you can....

 

But it IS a pretty cool bang...*sigh* I really should be more mature about these things...I think we've given fair warning though....

 

MM

[budullewraagh]

yeah, that almost has the same force as silver acetylide, no?

[Mr_Mediocre]

Not sure about Ag acetylide, never tried it or heard much about it. Sounds like an expensive balloon, but what the hell, you only live once (conservative estimate).

 

;-)

 

MM

[budullewraagh]

ag acetylide is an incredibly powerful primary explosive.

take C2H2, add AgNO3 and you have HNO3 and Ag2C2.

[STING]

I agree with YT2095, I do electrical work and it will eat your as? up fast.Graphite Carbons from the ole style d cells work good, you need some type of resistor like two metal plates in salt water 2,3, inches apart.(this is just for making sparks) but like YT2095 said for electrolysis you sure need d.c. welders/battery chargers work but not much voltage...hole lot of amps though. oh well just a rant

[apathy]

if yer going to split water, don't forget the electrolyte!

 

http://www.science-projects.com/Electrolysis/eLysis.htm

[dryan]

Thanks apathy, I tried emphasis that a salt bath is necessary. A saturated NaCl solution is easy to make and works flawlessly.

 

I did some work with a model hydrogen fuel cell car last year, which operates by the electrolysis and synthesis of H2O. In that instance, however, we used a proton exchange membrane (PEM).

http://www.humboldt.edu/~serc/animation.html

Using a proton exchange membrane for these processes are much "cleaner" than other methods - there is no burning involved in the synthesis and no electrolyte dissolved in the water; the catalyst takes care of those things.

However, the cell only produces ~2volts, so a stack of cells in necessary in powering most devices.

[apathy]

what a coinkiedink

 

my work involves improving the catalysts for PEM fuel cells

actually direct methanol fuel cells

I'm developing methods that alter the shapes of the catalyst particles so that only one crystallographic surface (for the most part) is doing the reacting

 

that way we can see if we can't get 2,10,20 times the current out of a DMFC, and you can have higher power densities, you could power more devices with them

 

i've gotten the particles, the hard part it seems is getting them onto the dern Nafion membranes without ruining them (heat and pressure and all).

 

But, the bigger problem with DMFCs is methanol crossover, which limits the MeOH conc. you can use. So you have a huge tank of dilute methanol on the back of your laptop. but improvements are being made all the time

 

ANYWAY..........