Cleaning Water Bottles (for Drinking)

[vja4Him]

Would it be best to use cold water and bleach, or hot water and bleach, for cleaning our water bottles and water jugs?

 

I've read numerous pages about how to clean water bottles, but haven't found anything yet that clearly states whether cold or hot water and bleach is best for killing the bacteria that collects in water bottles.

 

A friend of mine swears by his method of using a little rice mixed with water, shake it around for half a minute, then rinse. I've tried that, but still have problems with stuff floating around in my water bottles (after they have been rinsed really good, air dried, then filled with filtered water (from our home filter), and then frozen.

 

So, I'm back to using bleach. I've read that mixing bleach and baking soda is a good solution for cleaning water bottle.

 

I'm just wondering if hot or cold water is better, or does it really matter? Maybe alternate - one time use bleach (and/or baking soda) with hot water, then the next time with cold water ... ???

 

Some sources claim that you need to rinse with hot water first, then rinse with cold water as well. I think it might have something to do with breaking the bonds of the bleach ... ??? Not really sure about that. I'm not a chemist!

[monterto]

Are you trying to get dirt out of the bottle like a residue or are you trying to steralize it?

[CharonY]

What was in the bottles before and from what material is it? If it wasn't something really nasty (in which case I would not use it as drinking bottle anyway), I would go with really hot water. A few times maybe. I am not a big fan of disinfecting with bleach.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

I'm not sure which kinds of plastic are affected, but I thought that certain types of plastic container leach various weird plastic compounds into their contents when they're heated.

 

This link has more info: http://trusted.md/blog/vreni_gurd/2007/03/29/plastic_water_bottles

 

So check what kind of bottle you have first.

[CharonY]

That is why I asked for the material. Also if stuff is floating around it does not necessary mean that this are the result of something growing in it.

[vja4Him]

Most of the bottle I'm using to freeze my drinking water originally had only water in them. Several bottles I'm using had Mountain Dew, or Sam's Clear, or Vitamin Water, or tea.

 

I always rinse out the bottles with the hottest water we can get from our tap (which is really not very hot, because the landlord keeps the hot water heater turned down). But usually the hot tap water is hot enough that I can't hold my hand under it for very long.

 

I'm wondering if maybe the plastic is coming off from inside and floating around? But, I don't think that is the problem, at least not with all of the bottles, because even brand new water bottles have had stuff floating around -- like flakes, or fine powder, fuzzy stuff ....

 

I've been cleaning all of the bottles we use with both bleach and baking soda. Will see if that takes care of the problem ....

 

I've been checking all of my one gallon water jugs really good. Everytime I pour water from them, I pour a test sample into a clear container first, and hold up to the light or window to see if there is anything floating around. So far I have not found any sign of contamination in the one gallon water jugs.

 

I've also checked the water coming out from the tap (both hot and cold), and have not found any sign of contamination there either.

 

So, the problem is obviously coming from the water bottles. I'm hoping they just need an extra thorough cleaning ....

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Are you trying to get dirt out of the bottle like a residue or are you trying to steralize it?

 

I only use the bottles for water. Some (but not very many) originally had something else, like Sam's Clear, or tea.

 

I want to get the bottles clean, so I don't see any more stuff floating around, which looks really gross, especially the stuff that looks fuzzy ...

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My bicycle is my only transporation, and I carry lots of water bottles with me when I'm out riding. I'm wondering if perhaps at least one of the problems could be the heat?

 

We live in a hot valley, with temperatures in the 90s and triple-digit. Maybe the heat is speeding up the action of bacteria when I'm out riding ... ???

 

Seems like this problem I've noticed has been worse within the past several weeks ...

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I notice that the Sam's Clear (from Wal-Mart) doesn't have a number for the type of bottle, but does say this:

 

Phenylketonurics: Contains Phenylalanine. Does that have anything to do with plastics?

 

I like to use these bottles the most, because they fit perfectly in all my water bottle cages, and in the pouches of my saddlebag. They never leak, and even when they fall off the bike, they don't break!

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Here are some of the brands of water bottles I use:

 

-- Niagara

-- Arrowhead

-- American Falls

-- Crystal Geyser

-- Kirkland

-- Sunny Select

 

On the bottom of all of these bottles is the triangle symbol with a number 1 inside the triangle. I read the article on Which Plastic Water Bottles Don't Leach Chemicals, which mentions that a #2, #4, or #5 is ok, but not #1.

 

Could all that stuff I see floating around be from the plastic breaking down?

[Psycho]

You just seem paranoid, water is chlorinated to stop bacteria growing in it in the first place and to be honest they aren't going to do you any harm, unless you are selling the water bottles or it is for a business such as a restaurant, I can't really see what the problem is as unless you have left the water for a few days if not weeks nothing is going to have grown in it to any significant level.

 

Phenylalanine, is an essential amino acid that the body naturally requires, it would be in the original drink rather than the plastic.

[vja4Him]

You just seem paranoid, water is chlorinated to stop bacteria growing in it in the first place and to be honest they aren't going to do you any harm, unless you are selling the water bottles or it is for a business such as a restaurant, I can't really see what the problem is as unless you have left the water for a few days if not weeks nothing is going to have grown in it to any significant level.

 

Phenylalanine, is an essential amino acid that the body naturally requires, it would be in the original drink rather than the plastic.

 

I'm not just paranoid ... !!! I don't like the idea of drinking water that is clouded with gross looking stuff ... !!! If you can handle drinking that kind of crap, then go for it ... !!! Not me ...

 

I like clean, crystal clear water ... !!! Something has obviously happened recently, because the water in all of my water bottles was clean. This problem just started happening recently.

 

Also, I have a very sensitive stomach, and also suffer from extremely serious acid reflux. So I have to be very careful with what I eat and drink. I need to be drinking lots of clean water everyday.

 

I used to use only rice to clean out the water bottles. But when I noticed the gross stuff floating around in my water, I thought that bleach should clear up the problem. When it didn't I used more bleach, then added baking soda.

 

I will find out soon enough if what I'm doing works. If I still see the gross stuff floating around, then it must be the plastic breaking down and floating around in the water, which I will not drink.

 

I noticed that all of our water bottles (except one, which has the #7) have a #1, which is the plastic you are not supposed to reuse.

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Does anyone know if hot water or cold water would be more effective when using bleach for cleaning water bottles ... ???

[John Cuthber]

The phenylalanine is almost certainly from aspartame.

Rinsing a bottle with bleach and leaving it for a while will kill any bugs in the bottle (unless the bottle is really dirty). Rinse out the bleach with clean water and you should be OK. It's still a good idea to empty and fill the bottles from time to time in order to rinse out anything that's started growing.

The triangele with a 1 means the bottle is made of PETE which is probably the commonest plastic used for drinks bottles. The big scare was about polycarbonate rather than PETE.

[vja4Him]

So, even if the bottles have the #1 inside the triangle, would they be ok to reuse for drinking water?

[John Cuthber]

I do reuse them sometimes.

If I were using them a lot I might buy a different bottle, but I don't see the point.

If I buy a drink in one of those bottles it is pretty much water. If I drink it and refill the bottle with water how does it "know"?

[CharonY]

Actually if you only use it for water it is highly unlikely that in a short time there will be significant bacterial contamination. Of course if you let it standing around in sunlight algae or cyanobacteria might eventually settle in, but it takes quite a while. If you drink the stuff within a few days you should be fine. Stuff floating around are usually chemical residues (especially if your tap water is very hard) or, if you drink directly from the bottle, they are stuff from your mouth with which you inoculate the bottle. The moment you use them (or fill something in it) they are non-sterile again.

 

On the other hand, if you want to fill them with water and let them stand for a long time before drinking, Hydrogen peroxide is also a (more tasteless) alternative.

[Pantaz]

I use a bottle brush and dish soap for initial cleaning. If the bottle is actually smelly, then I fill it with diluted bleach (about 1 ounce per quart of water) and let it soak for at an hour. The bottle cap soaks in a bowl of the same disinfectant (especially if it's a "sipper" style cap.)

[StringJunky]

Is the water in the plastic bottles clear when you leave only to cloud up sometime later on your journey?

[vja4Him]

Is the water in the plastic bottles clear when you leave only to cloud up sometime later on your journey?

 

I notice the stuff floating around in the water bottles after I remove the bottles from the freezer (after some of the ice water has melted, of course), and before even opening the cap!

Edited July 27, 2009 by vja4Him

[StringJunky]

Just as an experiment, put some water in your (open) water jug and leave it to stand overnight in the fridge. This is to allow any dissolved chlorine to dissipate from the water, which is why the 'scum' may not be happening in your water jugs, then put it in the plastic bottles and freeze it...see what happens when it's melted. My suggestion is a long shot but it will eliminate chlorine, which may be a culprit, from the equation.

 

Another way to get rid of the chlorine would be to boil the water, allow to cool first, then freeze it in the plastic bottles and see what happens.

[insane_alien]

ae you sure it isn't just dust thats has settle on the water from the atmosphere? it can be concentrated in one spot by the freezing process and also cause that area of ice to melt fist(at a lower temperatue) so it would be more apparent than when the contents are completely liquid.

[vja4Him]

ae you sure it isn't just dust thats has settle on the water from the atmosphere? it can be concentrated in one spot by the freezing process and also cause that area of ice to melt fist(at a lower temperatue) so it would be more apparent than when the contents are completely liquid.

 

How would that much dust get into the water bottles?

[insane_alien]

i have no ida of the quantity you are seeing

 

perhaps some pictures would be helpful?

[vja4Him]

Would our water filter clean out the chlorine from the water? The filter we have is the Equinox EQ-10.

 

Just as an experiment, put some water in your (open) water jug and leave it to stand overnight in the fridge. This is to allow any dissolved chlorine to dissipate from the water, which is why the 'scum' may not be happening in your water jugs, then put it in the plastic bottles and freeze it...see what happens when it's melted. My suggestion is a long shot but it will eliminate chlorine, which may be a culprit, from the equation.

 

Another way to get rid of the chlorine would be to boil the water, allow to cool first, then freeze it in the plastic bottles and see what happens.

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I'll take a picture next time I see stuff in the water bottles. Sometimes it is a lot, and I mean a whole lot! You don't have to strain your eyes at all to see the stuff. Sometimes there are large flakes, like somewhere around 1-2 mm in size. Sometimes the stuff looks fuzzy (almost like some kind of mold?), and sometimes the stuff is almost like granules.

 

I just checked one of my Sam's Clear (from Wal-Mart) that I've had in the frig door for about three days now. There is about half left (of the original flavored drink, not water).

 

I looked at it very closely, and there is nothing floating around in it! That surprised me, as I thought for sure I would have to dump it out.

 

i have no ida of the quantity you are seeing

 

perhaps some pictures would be helpful?

[StringJunky]

To eliminate some variables (impurities in the water) you could try buying a bottle of deionized or distilled water frozen in the plastic bottles you use to see if it is the bottle material that is really causing the problem.

 

Your water filter does deal with chlorine and other impurities but not calcium compounds as far as I read...this is assuming it's working properly. Using the above deionized water you'll be starting from a clean sheet, so to speak, and can isolate if it is the bottle material. The problem could possibly be even worse with deionized water as it's a better solvent than plain tap water..if it is the bottle material then you'll know for sure.

 

You need to approach the problem in a systematic way gradually eliminating the possibilities.

 

Maybe one of the chemists here could give you a logical procedure to follow as my suggestions are a bit haphazard!

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Another thought has occurred to me, If the problem occurs only after freezing then it maybe possible with some plastics to become brittle enough to cause it to shed micro-fragments into the water on thawing. You don't buy these bottles frozen do you? Is it possible that these bottles are not engineered to be structurally stable at freezing temperatures. How's your acid reflux now at the thought of drinking suspended plastic? ...just a thought.

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I've thought about this some more and the simplest test to see, conclusively, if it's the bottles causing the problem would be to freeze some water in a metal cup/container, let it melt then pour it into a glass to see if any deposits are in it.

 

If there aren't, then you'll have to reconsider your thoughts about freezing these bottles.

 

You should note that these water bottles are intended for single use only and are engineered to be such.

 

I can't find any hard, unbiased facts about the effects of freezing plastics...only opinions and hearsay in forums .or announcements from organisations with a vested interest (in the plastics industry)

 

I would be inclined to find bottles made to withstand the rigours of re-use and easily sterilizable...like stainless steel. Not cheap but definitely safe and robust..

[vja4Him]

This has turned out to be an interesting science experiments, and I love science experiments!

 

I don't have any metal containers. I will buy one or two soon ....

 

I will also buy several plastic water containers that are designed for reuse.

 

Strange thing is though .... I've been reusing the nonresuable water bottles for years, and only encountered this problem recently, and even brand new containers still have the stuff floating.

 

Not all of my water bottles have this gross stuff floating around though ....

 

After using only cold water, mixed with either bleach, or both bleach and baking soda, I'm now switching to using hot water with the baking soad and bleach.

 

Will see if that makes any difference ....

 

In the meantime I'll be pouring water from the one gallon water jugs into a drinking glass, until I find a solution to keeping the water in the frozen water bottles clean.

 

I might even try the hydrogren pyroxide experiment .... How much should I use for cleaning the water bottles?

 

To eliminate some variables (impurities in the water) you could try buying a bottle of deionized or distilled water frozen in the plastic bottles you use to see if it is the bottle material that is really causing the problem.

 

Your water filter does deal with chlorine and other impurities but not calcium compounds as far as I read...this is assuming it's working properly. Using the above deionized water you'll be starting from a clean sheet, so to speak, and can isolate if it is the bottle material. The problem could possibly be even worse with deionized water as it's a better solvent than plain tap water..if it is the bottle material then you'll know for sure.

 

You need to approach the problem in a systematic way gradually eliminating the possibilities.

 

Maybe one of the chemists here could give you a logical procedure to follow as my suggestions are a bit haphazard!

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Another thought has occurred to me, If the problem occurs only after freezing then it maybe possible with some plastics to become brittle enough to cause it to shed micro-fragments into the water on thawing. You don't buy these bottles frozen do you? Is it possible that these bottles are not engineered to be structurally stable at freezing temperatures. How's your acid reflux now at the thought of drinking suspended plastic? ...just a thought.

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I've thought about this some more and the simplest test to see, conclusively, if it's the bottles causing the problem would be to freeze some water in a metal cup/container, let it melt then pour it into a glass to see if any deposits are in it.

 

If there aren't, then you'll have to reconsider your thoughts about freezing these bottles.

 

You should note that these water bottles are intended for single use only and are engineered to be such.

 

I can't find any hard, unbiased facts about the effects of freezing plastics...only opinions and hearsay in forums .or announcements from organisations with a vested interest (in the plastics industry)

 

I would be inclined to find bottles made to withstand the rigours of re-use and easily sterilizable...like stainless steel. Not cheap but definitely safe and robust..

[StringJunky]

I'm glad you starting to view the problem in an experimental and objective way, after all this is a science forum and the beauty of this type of problem, unlike most physics problems (which are in the head!) you are actually finding out practically!

 

At first, I thought your problem was a mundane one. Looking into it more, it has raised interesting issues about the safety and stability of plastics under certain conditions so I've learnt some thing that I might not have. I spent spent quite a bit of time yesterday thinking about your problem and browsing the internet on this subject, hence the three merged posts!

 

I hope you can deduce eventually what the cause is.

 

I'll think about it some more and post anything that I think may be useful information.

 

I hope you'll keep posting your findings and approaches as I'm interested.

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How long have you had your treatment unit? Your unit can be used for 5 years or 5000 gallons of water, whichever comes first. As the problem started recently and is getting worse I would check this.

 

What do you think to this idea, which has nothing to do with the container material?:

 

Tap water contains salts of magnesium and calcium which are not very soluble at normal temperatures. As the water freezes a block of ice is formed on the surface, which is pure water. As the size of this block increases the concentration of the salts, in the remaining and ever diminishing volume of liquid, increase to a saturation point. When this tipping point is reached, some of the excess salts (at this falling temperature of just above freezing in the last bit of remaining liquid) agglomerate and consequently precipitate into the deposits you see when it is melted later.

[vja4Him]

StringJunky;505767]I'm glad you starting to view the problem in an experimental and objective way, after all this is a science forum and the beauty of this type of problem, unlike most physics problems (which are in the head!) you are actually finding out practically!

 

Good news ... !!! I'm making some progress ... Some of my water bottles have clean water in them! I put some in the frig instead of freezing to see what happened. Several bottles still had fuzzy stuff floating around, and some had what appeared to be an oily film, that looked sorta like a clear jellyfish ... !!! Totally gross ...

 

Several bottles that were frozen remained clean, and several in the frig also remained clean.

 

I also took one of my water jugs and put in the frig with the cap off for several days. The water was still crystal clear!

 

I'm using hot water from now on though to continue cleaning the water bottles and water jugs.

 

How long have you had your treatment unit? Your unit can be used for 5 years or 5000 gallons of water, whichever comes first.

 

I've had the water filter for a little over one year.

 

What do you think to this idea, which has nothing to do with the container material?:

 

Tap water contains salts of magnesium and calcium which are not very soluble at normal temperatures. As the water freezes a block of ice is formed on the surface, which is pure water. As the size of this block increases the concentration of the salts, in the remaining and ever diminishing volume of liquid, increase to a saturation point. When this tipping point is reached, some of the excess salts (at this falling temperature of just above freezing in the last bit of remaining liquid) agglomerate and consequently precipitate into the deposits you see when it is melted later.

 

I'll have to try experimenting with tap water too. In the past when I allowed tap water to stand in a pot overnight, there was white crystal-like stuff in the bottom of the pan. I think that might be calcium deposits (?).

[StringJunky]

Are you taking notes as to which bottle types are producing, or not producing, these effects...you should do or you will lose track!

 

If you are getting different effects, using the same water in different bottles, then it's looking like it's the bottle material, especially as your water jugs are clear if you've frozen one. This is your control experiment that eliminates the possibility of it being the water.

 

A suggestion: With the bottles that are producing the nasty stuff get a new one that you haven't used hot water in and instead just sterilize it with a weak bleach solution, then rinse it. Put tap water in it and freeze it as normal..when it melts, check for clarity. If it's clear It would indicate that the hot water regime is leaching something from the plastic.

 

With these suggestions I give you, I don't expect you to execute them straightaway as it is very important you follow your own logic and method. I'm not with you after all and I'm relying a lot on my imagination to visualise your scenario!..I'm merely giving you another viewpoint and ideas, as I think of them, for you to pick up on as and when you see fit. It's up to you to prioritise my suggestions, if any are useful...I'll just keep throwing them at you!

 

Your ultimate goal, I think, is to find the bottle type that withstands your cleaning regime and freezing with no visible residues.