Next stage in human evolution??

[Galindo]

Then why did they all die of smallpox?

 

Seriously, the past was not some mystical magical natural fairy-tale. We were *never* like the Navi. Pre-civilization humans were and still are constantly wracked by disease and frequently engage in wars.

 

Seriously, go actually *visit* some modern "primitive" tribes. They aren't singing Kumbaya all day while communing with nature and sucking ambrosia from flowers. They're working *hard* to grow crops and hunt food, they lose most of their kids to illness before they even grow up, and they'd stab their own gods in the testicles for a year's supply of anti-malaria drugs.

 

Ever hear of sickle-cell disease? It's a genetic disorder prevalent among those of African descent, but it's mild form grants immunity to malaria. Stop and think about that for a second. Having a gene that means 25% of your kids *automatically* die, resulted in *more reproduction* than having no defense against malaria. Kind of puts things into perspective.

 

Seriously, come off the whole "noble savage" "ways of the ancients" shit. It's been proven wrong, can be seen as wrong by anyone who cares to visit these tribes, and is really annoying. These people wage constant wars, treat rape as a general fact of life, and rarely live past 40. The leading cause of death in many extant primitive tribes is either war/murder or disease. That's not based on shitty movies, it's based on actual people actually going there and actually counting who died of what.

 

There's no magical peace or amazing spiritual meaning in the "old ways", just lots and lots of diseases, mostly diarrhea-based.

 

 

Ok, you just wrote 3 paragraphs and proved absolutely nothing. The Mayans never died of smallpox, smallpox didn't even exist until 10,000 years later. But ignorant people like you probably just say or think whatever they want because they were spoiled and pampered throughout their childhood. As I was saying, human beings nowadays are lacking something that we do no possess anymore. People like you are disrespectful and act as if you are better than those around them, when in reality you are just 1 out of nearly 7 billion. Our planet isn't doing so good if you haven't noticed...global catastrophes, economic slumps, wars....etc. The ancients used to have a way of being that involved higher levels of consciousness. Obviously we lack that form of consciousness when we have people like George Bush swindeling away billions and putting our country in the economic disaster it is in.

 

And sure we have these great technological advancements that are great. Life spans are greater, we are better connected, we can communicate instantaneously, we have medicines, essentially everything we need. But we are lacking something called morals. Over the years we have grown corrupt by these things and we don't know how to treat eachother. If we ever want to advance as a species we have to know how to use our brain to its full potential, we have to learn how to accept other ideas, and we need a better system.

Edited January 19, 2010 by Galindo

[Mokele]

The Mayans never died of smallpox, smallpox didn't even exist until 10,000 years later.

 

My bad, the Incas and Aztecs were wiped out by it. My point still stands.

 

The ancients used to have a way of being that involved higher levels of consciousness.

 

Have you ever read a history book? The "enlightened ancients" waged almost unceasing war with each other.

 

But we are lacking something called morals. Over the years we have grown corrupt by these things and we don't know how to treat eachother.

 

Really?

 

So, you approve of slavery? It was practiced widely throughout the "primitive" world - European slavers only industrialized a practice which already existed within Africa and in just about every other ancient society.

 

You like rape? Most ancient societies viewed it as totally acceptable, as can be seen from their legal writings.

 

Honor-killings? Again, common through the ancient world, on all continents.

 

 

Provide even one actual citation, one fact, that supports your claims of this idylic past.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

We are living in the most peaceful time in our existence.

[Galindo]

We are living in the most peaceful time in our existence.

 

 

That's the problem with us. Your world may be peaceful, but in reality your nextdoor neighbor's world may be hell. Your sister's world could be hell. Most of the population in other 3rd world countries may be HELL. But we as humans only look it at in one perspective, and fail to see the big picture.

[mooeypoo]

But we as humans only look it at in one perspective, and fail to see the big picture.

Nope, that's just some americans.

 

The world is by far not peaceful, and you don't need to go to so-called "third world countries" to see that.

[Sisyphus]

We have fewer wars and "economic slumps" then we've ever had. We're also nicer to each other. That there are societies where there are consequences for rape, or for a rich person killing a poor person, is actually a very recent development, historically speaking. I am baffled that you would use the Maya as an example of a better society. From what we know of them, the Maya civilization was an oppressive theocracy that engaged in more or less continual, brutal wars of conquest, slavery, human sacrifice, etc. No concept of human rights, no apparent arts except slave labor in service to the theocracy, etc. And yes, our calendars are better than theirs.

 

I think you're imagining an idealized past that has never been lived by anyone, ever.

[Phi for All]

That's the problem with us. Your world may be peaceful, but in reality your nextdoor neighbor's world may be hell. Your sister's world could be hell. Most of the population in other 3rd world countries may be HELL. But we as humans only look it at in one perspective, and fail to see the big picture.

And you're looking at it from only one perspective as well. You probably think not enough aid is going to some of those "hell" countries, but what if the aid they want is more weapons to defend themselves against their neighbors? Isn't that just supporting more violence?

 

You complain that we don't see the big picture, yet you seem to think this can all be fixed in the blink of an eye by reverting to a less complicated time. I think it's been shown that modern communication and technology is helping to change attitudes gradually over time, the only realistic way things can be changed cross-culturally.

 

If there is anything modern society is lacking in, I think it's the perspective that working hard to achieve goals can lend. In many ways the western need for speed and convenience strips away an appreciation for just how difficult some things can be. We expect things to be on hand when we want them, and often don't think about all the work it took to get them there.

 

But that perspective is also gained gradually over time whenever something happens to threaten our comfort and convenience. So I think your fears that our neighbors will continue to live in hell are misguided. Things are changing for the better all the time. But we need to change our perspective that these changes have to happen quicker. Change that happens too quickly can catch us all unprepared, and cause more hardship than before.

[Sisyphus]

And you're looking at it from only one perspective as well. You probably think not enough aid is going to some of those "hell" countries, but what if the aid they want is more weapons to defend themselves against their neighbors? Isn't that just supporting more violence?

 

Also, the very concept of humanitarian foreign aid is relatively modern. And "foreign aid" that doesn't consist of forcefully converting people to your supposedly superior way of life is even more recent. You think the Maya sent care packages to their more primitive neighbors?

[Phi for All]

Also, the very concept of humanitarian foreign aid is relatively modern. And "foreign aid" that doesn't consist of forcefully converting people to your supposedly superior way of life is even more recent. You think the Maya sent care packages to their more primitive neighbors?

Great point. And much of the foreign aid sent today is in the form of modern medicine, which also wouldn't be available to 3rd world cultures without present attitudes of humanitarian concern.

 

I do think we need a more long-term appreciation of what impact our actions can have on our environment, but that's about the only concession I'm willing to make towards "higher levels of consciousness" and "ancient morals". Trying to overlay behavior from several millenia ago onto today's societies is incredibly naive and unrealistic. You can't pick the train up while it's running and put it on a different track. But you can show people why they should switch trains at the next station.

[Sisyphus]

I do think we need a more long-term appreciation of what impact our actions can have on our environment, but that's about the only concession I'm willing to make towards "higher levels of consciousness" and "ancient morals".

 

Even that, I think, requires support. We in modern society worry about our effect on our environment. This didn't really happen (in "modern society," at least) before roughly the mid-twentieth century. Are there older examples of what we would call "environmentalism?" I don't know. Maybe in a practical, "we shouldn't kill all the buffalo because then we'll starve" kind of way, but in an abstract, global, "moral" way?

 

Of course, maybe we have environmentalism specifically because that "practical environmentalism" wouldn't be so obvious for us, whose possessions come from a global network of specialized labor where cause and effect are difficult to trace. I dunno.

[Mr Skeptic]

It does seem that our social and technological evolution is leaving our biological evolution far, far behind.

[Galindo]

I fail at trying to put my point across. Nevertheless, I think anybody will agree when I say that human beings are far more capable than what we currently think we are. It is possible for us to evolve as a species within the next 10-20 years and see essentially big global change, but that's so hard to do when your living in America because everybody is overconcerend with themselves all the time. It's like we are naturally limiting ourselves. Good discussion either way.

[Sisyphus]

Nevertheless, I think anybody will agree when I say that human beings are far more capable than what we currently think we are.

 

We'll agree that what we think is wrong? Doesn't that mean we don't think it?

 

It is possible for us to evolve as a species within the next 10-20 years

 

No. Not if by evolve you mean in the biological sense. And not really in any other sense, either. Change takes time.

 

and see essentially big global change,

 

Well that's true, at least. We are in an era of faster global change than ever before.

 

but that's so hard to do when your living in America because everybody is overconcerend with themselves all the time.

 

I won't deny that people are overconcerned with themselves, but I think you'll find that anywhere, not just in America.

[Galindo]

OK, so what if this evolution isn't something that you can physically see, it's a big change in the way we think...

 

Humans nowadays think in a linear sense.

School is over.

You walk home.

You do homework.

You watch TV.

Shower

Go to bed.

 

Now of course your's may be different but this is just your average teenager.

Our brain works based on routine functions, and today we are totally fine with it. So you see how one can argue that our way of thinking has changed over time, essentially it has worsened. We sit in front of the TV and let it eat away hours of our time, perhaps even brainwashing us.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Beats mindlessly plowing the field for hours on end.

 

I mean, you can't argue that the average 4th-century peasant led a richer intellectual life than modern humans.

[Sisyphus]

Modern humans have access to (and are bombarded with) more and more information, and have more and more options for intellectual stimulation than ever before.

[Galindo]

Beats mindlessly plowing the field for hours on end.

 

I mean, you can't argue that the average 4th-century peasant led a richer intellectual life than modern humans.

 

 

Obviously not, the topic is evolution. The questions is how do we evolve from here. I'm suggesting it starts with the way we think, and the way we look at things. The brain is more electrical than anything, it seems to me that we are wasting it away.

[mooeypoo]

OK, so what if this evolution isn't something that you can physically see, it's a big change in the way we think...

 

Humans nowadays think in a linear sense.

School is over.

You walk home.

You do homework.

You watch TV.

Shower

Go to bed.

Honestly, very few people settle for doing that anymore.. barring a small percentage of the population, most people have the potential of reaching positions and knowledge that they couldn't before (when most of the population was working a land, for instance, for the benefit of a monarch). People know it, and usually aspire for more than just going home and sleeping after school or work.

 

Most people, that is.

 

We can argue about whether or not people use their time to what we deem as good enough causes, but the vast majority of people don't settle for "linear" thinking anymore. Specially with an internet that is so prevalent in our lives, and cellphones, etc, that give us access to information and opportunities we've never really had before.

[Galindo]

Honestly, very few people settle for doing that anymore.. barring a small percentage of the population, most people have the potential of reaching positions and knowledge that they couldn't before (when most of the population was working a land, for instance, for the benefit of a monarch). People know it, and usually aspire for more than just going home and sleeping after school or work.

 

Most people, that is.

 

We can argue about whether or not people use their time to what we deem as good enough causes, but the vast majority of people don't settle for "linear" thinking anymore. Specially with an internet that is so prevalent in our lives, and cellphones, etc, that give us access to information and opportunities we've never really had before.

 

 

Ok, still...There are areas of the brain which we know little about. Which we don't even know how to use. And I would almost be certain that most people are linear thinkers, just based on observations and reading the text of other people. Some of us don't know how to examine other's ideas and consider it a possibility. I mean we are all human, but we treat each other stupidly, constantly raising eyebrows at eachother and arguing over points that are rather useless just to maintain this "ego".

[Phi for All]

Galindo, you seem to think we are hyper-stylized versions of what humans ought to be, simply because modern advertising techniques like to control what we think we like. Perhaps we are self-centered but we are reaching out to people and cultures all over the globe in a way that was never possible before. For every negative you can mention, there are 10 positives to counter them.

 

And we don't evolve within a generation, not in the biological sense. I think you are talking about more about social adaptation, adjusting to the interpersonal and social demands our combined cultures place upon us. I actually think we are adapting nicely, just not fast enough for some to notice the changes, especially people who have only been aware of the need for change for a short time.

[Galindo]

Galindo, you seem to think we are hyper-stylized versions of what humans ought to be, simply because modern advertising techniques like to control what we think we like. Perhaps we are self-centered but we are reaching out to people and cultures all over the globe in a way that was never possible before. For every negative you can mention, there are 10 positives to counter them.

 

And we don't evolve within a generation, not in the biological sense. I think you are talking about more about social adaptation, adjusting to the interpersonal and social demands our combined cultures place upon us. I actually think we are adapting nicely, just not fast enough for some to notice the changes.

 

Right, you have to excuse my sporadic thinking. I always thought the system we live in is so corrupt though, I was born into a family of an illegal mexican immigrant and an alcoholic. This is something I had to deal with for most of my childhood, which later brought me into DSS and all that. I've been through the "system" and it's not fair. It always seemed to me that the rich kids get a free ride and the "poor" don't matter. My life has been very rough due to that fact, but I don't think that should discredit my thoughts and opinions. Consider it bringing another side to the story. My thought process is far different than other people, it may be in a class of it's own. I look at things as if I'm just "one" being in this planet Earth. So you can understand how my thoughts may differ from yours.

[Phi for All]

Right, you have to excuse my sporadic thinking. I always thought the system we live in is so corrupt though, I was born into a family of an illegal mexican immigrant and an alcoholic. This is something I had to deal with for most of my childhood, which later brought me into DSS and all that. I've been through the "system" and it's not fair. It always seemed to me that the rich kids get a free ride and the "poor" don't matter. My life has been very rough due to that fact, but I don't think that should discredit my thoughts and opinions. Consider it bringing another side to the story. My thought process is far different than other people, it may be in a class of it's own. I look at things as if I'm just "one" being in this planet Earth. So you can understand how my thoughts may differ from yours.

It sounds like you had it rough, but the whole idea of social services is also a very modern one. A century or so ago, you wouldn't have stood a chance at having the education level you have now, and would have been counted lucky to still be alive. Things are better than they have ever been, but that also means there are more rich kids around than ever before as well.

 

Fair? Fair only counts in science when it involves inventions and prizes and misfiring volcanoes. For every person who thinks his life isn't fair, there's someone who would love to have it so good. I think if there's anything we have to learn these days, it's how to keep doing what we're doing, and keep trying to make life better for as many people as possible.

[mooeypoo]

Ok, still...There are areas of the brain which we know little about. Which we don't even know how to use.

Really? which areas we don't know how to use? As far as I know, we're using the entirety of our brains. The myth about only using 10% of it is nothing more than a confusion about how much of our brain we're able to use at any given moment.

 

Here, good references about this subject:

 

• http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/tenper.html
  
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10%25_of_brain_myth
  
• http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/10percent.asp
  

And I would almost be certain that most people are linear thinkers, just based on observations and reading the text of other people.

Based on my observations, I reach the opposite conclusion. It seems it's time we stop talking subjectively and look for objective information about this.

 

Some of us don't know how to examine other's ideas and consider it a possibility.

Agreed. That's also a manner of education, though. It's a huge problem, but I wouldn't say it's *everyone's* problem. You can see this problem being diminished in some European countries where education is to much better and higher standards.

 

I mean we are all human, but we treat each other stupidly, constantly raising eyebrows at eachother and arguing over points that are rather useless just to maintain this "ego".

Yes, maybe, but not all of us do.. and claiming it's our natural condition requires a bit more evidence than subjective evaluation of a personal experience.

[Galindo]

In reply to mooeypoo:

 

I saw a special the other day about "The Lost Gland". The Pineal Gland. It allegedly has some bizarre properties and is definitely worth looking into.

[mooeypoo]

In reply to mooeypoo:

 

I saw a special the other day about "The Lost Gland". The Pineal Gland. It allegedly has some bizarre properties and is definitely worth looking into.

Can you find a link about it? Read the ones I shared.. the consensus seems to be we are indeed using 100% of our brains, but not all at the same time, and some parts we're not yet certain as to their specific purpose.. if you have a link to this show, or, better yet, to a paper about it, I'd love to read it.