<Infinite Mass> = <Absolute Vacuum> Properties

[rrw4rusty]

Hi,

 

My first post outside of the 'intro thread' -- not entirely sure this is the correct sub-forum.

 

Question:

Are the properties of Infinite Mass exactly the same as the properties of an absolute vacuum?

 

That is: the same everywhere, one state, no events, no time, no temperature, ... what else?

 

I asked this question in '92 and got a 'yes' but, I'm behind the curve and out of date now.

 

Thanks!

Ron

[timo]

1) You'd have to ask yourself to what extent infinite mass (or an infinite amount of anything) makes sense.

2) Idealized vacuum has a constant density [sidenote: I am not interested in being told about imagined quantum effects]. I do not see why a sensible definition of an infinite mass would be would exclude its density to be non-constant. Either take a stone and make it infinitely heavy -> the density is still not constant but remains zero outside the stone. Or take a finite density over an infinite volume and set the density zero in some finite sub-volume -> again, a non-constant density.

3) Why should an infinite mass not have a temperature? In the simplest case, temperature can be thought of being defined in the thermodynamic limit. This involves the number of particles going to infinity which implies the total mass of the system going to infinity.

4) "no time" seems just as wrong.

5) "one state", too. Take an object of infinite mass (again assuming such a thing could be properly defined) but finite size and place it somewhere else. Two distinct states.

 

My guess is that with "infinite mass" you mean something like a system with a reduced amount of degrees of freedom. In that case, some of your comparisons might become true. If there's only one state (zero degrees of freedom) then you cannot define a temperature, for example.

[rrw4rusty]

Atheist,

 

Thanks for your reply!

By infinite mass I mean a singularity of a black hole.

By absolute vacuum I mean the absence of space/time.

Neither state is possible within our universe (I guess this is dependent on your views).

 

By single state I mean the absolute uniformity (the same everywhere) that one would presumably find within a singularity or an absolute vacuum if it were possible to get inside and look around.

 

Edit: I do not know what you mean by 'degrees'.

 

Cheers,

Rusty

Edited August 7, 2009 by rrw4rusty
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[ajb]

By infinite mass I mean a singularity of a black hole.

 

The mass of black holes is finite. (Though mathematically you could consider the mass tending to infinity, if that is useful).

 

Better to say that the singularity is a place of infinite density.

[swaha]

black hole i think has infinite density not infinite mass as volume becomes zero.

[ajb]

black hole i think has infinite density not infinite mass as volume becomes zero.

 

Yes indeed, classically at least.

[rrw4rusty]

I wanted to thank everyone for their replies -- they were most helpful, especially the infinite density instead of infinite mass! The universe I've created for my sci-fi book is workable enough. The 'infinite density' the clarification resolved a conflict I would have had to gloss over with literary license and this is very awesome.

 

Cheers,

Rusty

[elas]

Hi,

 

 

Question:

Are the properties of Infinite Mass exactly the same as the properties of an absolute vacuum?

 

That is: the same everywhere, one state, no events, no time, no temperature, ... what else?

 

Thanks!

Ron

 

Surely Infinite Mass cannot exist without dimensions while Absolute Vacuum cannot exist with dimensions and therefore cannot be infinite? How else can the cause of existance be explained.

[rrw4rusty]

My wording was wrong. It should have been: Doesn't infinite density and an absolute vacuum has the same properties (could you tell the difference if somehow you could be inside these states).

 

Thanks for replying!

 

Rusty