Wigner's paradox - Connection of mind and matter

[Vague]

With regard to Wigner's paradox, that shows how mind can affect matter, how many of you believe that it is in fact mind that creates reality? And that the 'real' world does not actually exists.

[Vague]

P.S. A bit of info about Wigner's paradox is given here http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/biography/Wigner.html.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

It's certainly possible, though I doubt you would realize it.

 

Crappy virtual reality.

[YT2095]

how many of you believe that it is in fact mind that creates reality? And that the 'real' world does not actually exists.

I don`t beleive that, because if that were the case and it`s all in my mind, then a bullet couldn`t harm me if I were unaware of it

[Sayonara]

The argument that your mind creates reality does not necessarily require that you are fully aware of that reality in a conscious sense.

[YT2095]

bus crashes in places I never knew existed or earthquakes, a new discovery or disease that there`s no way I could be aware of on ANY level, how does it come close to explaining these?

if I create my own universe/reality, how come I`m not a very rich man cappable of righting wrongs, and experimenting with things and equipment I can only dream about, in REALITY.

that`s taking "Life`s what you make it" a bit TOO far! )

 

naah, the idea`s bogus in my universe

[Sayonara]

Errr... YT, if your brain is creating the reality you experience, and you read about a bus crash in some far-flung country, the bus crash doesn't actually need to be 'constructed' and neither does the country.

 

Experiencing non-solicited thoughts like that would be no more unusual an event than the processes your brain carries out without your 'orders' or knowledge.

[YT2095]

then why should I hear of it? I`m not THAT imaginative or that cruel?

[Sayonara]

I think you started posting that before I finished my edit - see second paragraph --^

 

You already experience thoughts of actions and events that are unlikely or contrary to your nature during dreams, and they are a kind of reality that you are creating.

[YT2095]

so an experimental discovery is made, and no one beleives in it, and so to "PROVE" it wrong, it`s tested because the "I told you so" is wanted, but the experiment proves TRUE (oh dear), how could this occur? surely there must be A Reality that exists with or without the need for an observer, thought or opinion. one that exists regardless of whether people beleive in it or not, the part that Science endevours to learn more about.

 

I think it far more likely that matter can effect the mind (and instruments) than us actualy creating these effects, for a start it would all be Chaos, as there`s so many different minds that nothing would be agreed upon and nature would be all over the place, or am I making these other minds up? and you`re just a figment of my imagination?

 

Naah, I think I`de know it if that were the case, I`m a pretty smart kinda guy, and would picked up some sort of patern in it a long time ago I recon, and have won the lotto many times over

[Sayonara]

What?

 

This isn't like the "You are the ruler of everything" thread.

[YT2095]

but it is. by virtue of the fact that if the statement is TRUE, then I am ruler of everything, as my own mind creates it. and so the only remaining thing to do would be attain complete control of my mind, and Hey Presto, I`m God

[Sayonara]

No. The mere act of creation does not denote control.

 

 

I'm not sure what "does the mind create reality" has to do with Wigner's paradox per se (unless the question is going to get more specific later on), but I think we can safely say that since this question that is as old as philosophy itself, it's going to take a bit more effort.

[YT2095]

yeah, it`s an Existentialist thing (or however you spell it)

[Sayonara]

If we take "it is in fact mind that creates reality? And that the 'real' world does not actually exists" to mean the following:

 

- The mind in question is not necessarily the same as (or similar to) what we understand as being a mind,

 

- Everything we commonly consider to be a product of reality is only an element of one such mind,

 

- The origins of such a reality can never be known,

 

 

...then there are several points that can be deduced.

 

1. Since there is no distinction between the reality of this hypothetical mind and what we call reality, terms such as 'virtual' or 'illusion' are malapropisms.
   
2. The fact that we are considering reality as being the product of one mind only dictates that, since concepts such as character traits, motives and even what we understand as reason are simply attributes of that reality, they do not necessarily apply to the functional role of the mind in question.
   
3. Since we can not distinguish between a communally experienced, observer-independent reality, and one that is the sole experience of a single mind, which one it actually is makes no odds either way.

[YT2095]

yeah, what he said

 

in addition, only the female maybe said to reside in an unalterable fixed reality, as they may change their mind at will without risk of blinking out of existance

[Vague]

I don`t beleive that, because if that were the case and it`s all in my mind, then a bullet couldn`t harm me if I were unaware of it

 

You really think the bullet could harm you? Well, there lies the problem. Whether you are aware or not, what is going to happen is not based on your choice or you being unaware of it. It is bound to happen by the rules of Nature. But what is it that the bullet is going to destroy? Is it really you?

 

We need to look at this in a different way; this is not something that can be understood while having a common perspective of Nature. Long have physicist tried to keep the consciousness away from their experiments, thinking that interference of mind would result in errors but eventually they have to look on the result of the experiment and collapse the ‘unreal’ into ‘real’. (For more on what collapsing of reality means, you would need to read the book “Other worlds” by Paul Davies).

 

When you read that book, you will know that everything except consciousness seems to be false. In that case, if consciousness makes everything, then guess who made consciousness?

[YT2095]

the Machines?

[Vague]

the Machines?

 

Can we get better? Matrix is old story

[senexa]

I think it depends on your definition of reality. If you assume the keyboard and computer are solid, concrete and discrete objects, then your mind would essentially be unable to influence their configurations.

 

However, if you are functionally aware of them as particles interacting and interfacing with all of the other particles in the universe at variable rates of speed, then applying the magnetic energy field of your brain would most likely have great effect.

 

We, ourselves, might be just a configuration of particles, perhaps embodied due to the constructive limitations imposed upon us by someone else's mental energy.

 

Good topic to think about and research, thank you.

[jordan]

I think you are missing the third on that they have been talking about. They were refering to the state where nothing is "real" but everything is just created by your mind. You believe it's real only because that's what your mind tells you to believe. However, it is all an imagined world, kind of like a dream.

[senexa]

The article referenced below presents a very good overview of how our minds create the reality we choose and how they influence the reality perceived by others. I found it most thought provoking.

 

 

REALITY MIND AND LANGUAGE

as

FIELD WAVE AND PARTICLE

 

Special Field Examination In Language and Cognition

For Professors Matisoff, Malkiel, and Sawyer

 

Department of Linguistics. U.C. Berkeley

 

© Danny Keith Hawkmoon Alford January, 1981

 

 

http://www.enformy.com/dma-rml.htm#ch1