experiment question

[budullewraagh]

today i got really bored while studying for the math regents. i decided that it's about time i made a bit of sodium citrate (Na3C3H5O7) and extracted it from solution. hey, who doesn't want an anti-clotting agent around the house? could save your life, ya know. well, i did the simple reaction and boiled off all the H2O. unfortuantely, i was left with a black solid stuck to my pan. that wasn't cool. i figured that i had burned my Na3C3H5O7. i found this solid to be useless so i added a small amount of H2O and found it to be extremely soluble. now i have a small bottle filled with a black solution. anybody know what that solute is?

[dryan]

now i have a small bottle filled with a black solution

Are you sure it isn't a black mixture and not a solution?

Most things that give you color in solution are transition metals...Cu, Ni, Fe, Cr and the like.

 

Let the bottle sit for a couple hours or days and see if the black stuff settles.

[budullewraagh]

good call; there were no transition metals used. although i did use a metal pot to boil off the H2O.

 

i just put the bottle in my freezer a min ago and i will be keeping it chilled. i'll keep all ye posted

[budullewraagh]

this just in: i froze it and it still was the same black throughout. it really does look like a solution. think i could have corroded some of the pot while boiling off the H2O?

[apathy]

sounds like you burned (carbonized) it, but not fully to just black C.

I think it sounds like a good idea to let it settle over a few days.

 

I think what you did is similar to slightly burning sauce in a pan. There is no one solute, but most likely a mixture of different sized carbon particles. They could be so small as to stay in solution though (colloid).

 

All just guessing.

Run a TLC

[budullewraagh]

bah.

a tlc? i'm not familiar.

 

also, do you think that the same process would work if i heated H2O to 90 degrees celcius, added as much of both reactants as possible, check the pH, make sure it's approx 7 and then heat to boil off the H2O?

the catch is that i won't wait for all the H2O to boil off; rather i will take out some of the H2O and cool it. this way i won't get nearly as much product but hey, at least it won't be burnt. sound good?

[dryan]

thin-layer chromatography (TLC)

 

What are your reactants?

[budullewraagh]

C3H8O7 and NaHCO3

 

as for tlc, i dont have the resources for that.

 

but do you think the above procedure would work?

[budullewraagh]

i couldnt wait to try again, so i did. funny thing is that both times i noticed a slight smell of cinnamon... i didn't make an ester, did i?

[budullewraagh]

the pH is 7, which is good. i cooled it but nothing came out of solution. now i'm filtering it to get rid of any pulp. yeah, i'm cool; i get my C3H8O7 from lemons:\

i can see some crystals in the mixture but they're few and far between and they aren't settling nicely. i'll check tomorrow morning; hopefully the filtration will be done and the crystals will settle.

[YT2095]

congrats, you`ve just made PH ballanced Gravy browning, aka (Caramel)

 

the problem is that there`s no water in that formula you gave, just as there`s no water in sucrose (sugar for your coffee) C12H22O11 well there H22 and O11 in there and at the same ratio as water, but it`s not water unless you destroy the molecule (heating in this instance) leaving you with carbon and steam.

next time use a thermometer and don`t let it go above 100c.

sorry dude, you totaly ruined your anti-coagulant

[budullewraagh]

oh boy, caramel!

 

no H2O? i mentioned an acid which implies it is aqueous. it was a wet experiment, that is certain. where is the sucrose in the first place? also, i didn't let it go above 100 celcius according to my thermometer; rather i got it to a steady 98 but it boiled anyway. i know there is sodium citrate in there; when i filtered it, i found a white powder suspension...call that sucrose if you wish, i still dont know where you got that. either way, it must've been produced because NaHCO3 definately reacts with C3H8O7 to form Na3C3H5O7.

[budullewraagh]

oh, i get it. yt, you were reading the first post and realized how much of a fool i was the first time around. read my other posts for a more updated experiment