budullewraagh Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 today i got really bored while studying for the math regents. i decided that it's about time i made a bit of sodium citrate (Na3C3H5O7) and extracted it from solution. hey, who doesn't want an anti-clotting agent around the house? could save your life, ya know. well, i did the simple reaction and boiled off all the H2O. unfortuantely, i was left with a black solid stuck to my pan. that wasn't cool. i figured that i had burned my Na3C3H5O7. i found this solid to be useless so i added a small amount of H2O and found it to be extremely soluble. now i have a small bottle filled with a black solution. anybody know what that solute is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryan Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 now i have a small bottle filled with a black solution Are you sure it isn't a black mixture and not a solution? Most things that give you color in solution are transition metals...Cu, Ni, Fe, Cr and the like. Let the bottle sit for a couple hours or days and see if the black stuff settles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted June 21, 2004 Author Share Posted June 21, 2004 good call; there were no transition metals used. although i did use a metal pot to boil off the H2O. i just put the bottle in my freezer a min ago and i will be keeping it chilled. i'll keep all ye posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted June 21, 2004 Author Share Posted June 21, 2004 this just in: i froze it and it still was the same black throughout. it really does look like a solution. think i could have corroded some of the pot while boiling off the H2O? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apathy Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 sounds like you burned (carbonized) it, but not fully to just black C. I think it sounds like a good idea to let it settle over a few days. I think what you did is similar to slightly burning sauce in a pan. There is no one solute, but most likely a mixture of different sized carbon particles. They could be so small as to stay in solution though (colloid). All just guessing. Run a TLC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted June 22, 2004 Author Share Posted June 22, 2004 bah. a tlc? i'm not familiar. also, do you think that the same process would work if i heated H2O to 90 degrees celcius, added as much of both reactants as possible, check the pH, make sure it's approx 7 and then heat to boil off the H2O? the catch is that i won't wait for all the H2O to boil off; rather i will take out some of the H2O and cool it. this way i won't get nearly as much product but hey, at least it won't be burnt. sound good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dryan Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 thin-layer chromatography (TLC) What are your reactants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted June 22, 2004 Author Share Posted June 22, 2004 C3H8O7 and NaHCO3 as for tlc, i dont have the resources for that. but do you think the above procedure would work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted June 22, 2004 Author Share Posted June 22, 2004 i couldnt wait to try again, so i did. funny thing is that both times i noticed a slight smell of cinnamon... i didn't make an ester, did i? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted June 22, 2004 Author Share Posted June 22, 2004 the pH is 7, which is good. i cooled it but nothing came out of solution. now i'm filtering it to get rid of any pulp. yeah, i'm cool; i get my C3H8O7 from lemons:\ i can see some crystals in the mixture but they're few and far between and they aren't settling nicely. i'll check tomorrow morning; hopefully the filtration will be done and the crystals will settle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 congrats, you`ve just made PH ballanced Gravy browning, aka (Caramel) the problem is that there`s no water in that formula you gave, just as there`s no water in sucrose (sugar for your coffee) C12H22O11 well there H22 and O11 in there and at the same ratio as water, but it`s not water unless you destroy the molecule (heating in this instance) leaving you with carbon and steam. next time use a thermometer and don`t let it go above 100c. sorry dude, you totaly ruined your anti-coagulant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted June 22, 2004 Author Share Posted June 22, 2004 oh boy, caramel! no H2O? i mentioned an acid which implies it is aqueous. it was a wet experiment, that is certain. where is the sucrose in the first place? also, i didn't let it go above 100 celcius according to my thermometer; rather i got it to a steady 98 but it boiled anyway. i know there is sodium citrate in there; when i filtered it, i found a white powder suspension...call that sucrose if you wish, i still dont know where you got that. either way, it must've been produced because NaHCO3 definately reacts with C3H8O7 to form Na3C3H5O7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted June 22, 2004 Author Share Posted June 22, 2004 oh, i get it. yt, you were reading the first post and realized how much of a fool i was the first time around. read my other posts for a more updated experiment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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