Telepathy is not illogical...

[SilverRevlis]

Telepathy is not illogical or impossible, Telepathy uses brainwaves. This can be simply more subtle, smaller and as of yet not measurable by present day scientific instruments. If the brain can send and give off brainwaves then it can also receive them, especially if you tune in...

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

It doesn't "give off" brainwaves. Brainwaves as we currently understand them are just electrical patterns inside the brain monitored by electrodes on the surface of the scalp; they do not radiate in a form that could emanate across the room to someone else (as far as I know), and they certainly do not provide enough resolution to tell what someone else is thinking. An EEG, which picks up brain waves, can't tell you what someone is thinking about, just their general brain state.

[Sisyphus]

In addition to what Capn' said, it does not follow that if it were true that brains gave off "brain waves" through the air (they don't, to be clear), that that would imply that they would be perceptible. For example, we give off infrared light but can't perceive it. Also, even if if it were perceptible, that wouldn't make it coherent or understandable as actual thoughts. I can hear the hard-drive of my computer spinning, but I can't read files by listening to that sound.

[insane_alien]

not to mention the horrendous signal to noise ratio. beyond a few centimeters from the skull the signal would be lost to interference. this is why with EEG and MEG scans they need to shave your head and put the sensorstight against the skin.

[JillSwift]

Just as a point of order, it's best to establish that a phenomenon exists first, then worry about the mechanics of it.

 

Also, it is not given that just because something emits a radiation, does not mean it can "receive" that radiation - especially not necessarily in any meaningful way. So, besides the fact that brainwaves aren't emissions, even if they were that in itself doesn't mean anything. Additionally, even if they were emissions, that they hold any information about thoughts isn't a given, either.

 

Anyways, if you really have a reason to believe that there is such a phenomenon as telepathy, your first step is to evidence it with solid and repeatable double or triple blind experiments. Once the experiments have been repeated by others (and assuming they demonstrate telepathy) then you can get to work on how it works.

 

Anything before this step is pure speculation.

[iNow]

Indeed. Well said, Jill.

 

Describe how to measure this supposed phenomenon, and from there we can run tests. Before that time, you may as well be saying that purple unicorns fly from your shoulder to mine to transmit thoughts.

 

Describe the process. Describe how it can be measured. Perform the measurements. Then, and only then, can you begin to see if there is a phenomenon as a result of the process you have described.

[Mr Skeptic]

Telepathy is not illogical or impossible, Telepathy uses brainwaves. This can be simply more subtle, smaller and as of yet not measurable by present day scientific instruments. If the brain can send and give off brainwaves then it can also receive them, especially if you tune in...

 

Easy enough to test, see if telepathy is affected by electromagnetic noise.

[Psycho]

Easy enough to test, see if telepathy is affected by electromagnetic noise.

Of course is it, it is effected by everything as it never worked in the first place, the real test would be prove you can do it in the first place as Jill said.

[SilverRevlis]

To start, it is nice to see the conversation has been engaged without too much heavy bashing going on...

Let's set some things straight though...

A. To state the brain does not actually emit Delta, Theta, Alpha, Mu, Beta, Gamma (and probably even other waves) through the ether (just like sounds, radio and microwave) is saying your head is stuck in isolated void of space with no interaction with the outside world.

B. The experiments to date are not valid, full of holes, poorly controlled and can all easily by sabotaged by 'Hi, I'm still at Radiohead...!'

C. There is no problem with most of your statements such as noise, distortion and what I think you mean to be deferentiation, the cancelling and/or absorption of a signal. Just because the human brain is a dim light with low signal strength does not deny the possibility of telepathy. Also, the human has not fully developed the receptors in the brain, though there is being study done on this...

D. I would like to strengthen my argument with, actually, interference and projection. Take a moving fan, for example, if you aim a vibration at it then you can even make it talk... 'Hellooozzzz allsss youzzzzz noobiessss outsss theressss...' Now, ok... take the same idea and apply to waves. If your ears can pick up vibrations which are then translated by the brain, then there is no reason with the correct receptor in your brain that you will not actually be able to communicate via Telepathy... though, if Human developed it now, then most likely everyone would go insane...

[Mokele]

A. To state the brain does not actually emit Delta, Theta, Alpha, Mu, Beta, Gamma (and probably even other waves) through the ether (just like sounds, radio and microwave) is saying your head is stuck in isolated void of space with no interaction with the outside world.

 

There is no ether, and have you noticed that in order to detect brainwaves, we need to actually affix electrodes to the head?

 

You have a better chance of telepathically detecting muscle activity, because muscle produce much, much more powerful signals.

 

Just because the human brain is a dim light with low signal strength does not deny the possibility of telepathy.

 

Yes, actually, it does. Even *if* we accept that there's some sort of signal radiation from the brain, it decreases to the cube of distance. And given that we cannot detect brainwaves without specialized instruments just on the outside of the skull, that means you'd have immense difficulty transmitting a thought even across a small room.

 

Also, the human has not fully developed the receptors in the brain, though there is being study done on this...

 

There are no sensory receptors in the brain.

 

None. For anything. No senses at all. That's why you can do brain surgery without putting a patient fully under - there's no pain receptors.

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It's also worth asking why other animals don't have it? Why do they rely on pheremones and vision? We don't have anything they don't, and they've got plenty of senses we don't. To think that something as useful as telepathy has only cropped up in one species out of trillions is silly.

[Widdekind]

It's also worth asking why other animals don't have it? Why do they rely on pheremones and vision? We don't have anything they don't, and they've got plenty of senses we don't. To think that something as useful as telepathy has only cropped up in one species out of trillions is silly.

 

Telepathic abilities correlate to brain structures involved in "higher intelligence", like "the Frontal & Parietal Lobes (Sixth Sense), Temporal Lobes (Clairvoyance), & Occipital Lobes (Remote Viewing)". Please see bullet points 1-3 in the post below, which cites specific sources (points 4+ are speculations based upon said cited sources, and are not directly relevant to your specific point):

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=156634&hl=;

 

CONCLUSION: Telepathic abilities would only arise with "higher intelligence", which has only appeared relatively recently amongst mammalian primates.

[Mokele]

Telepathic abilities correlate to brain structures involved in "higher intelligence", like "the Frontal & Parietal Lobes (Sixth Sense), Temporal Lobes (Clairvoyance), & Occipital Lobes (Remote Viewing)".

 

So all mammals can be telepathic? Because all of those structures are present in every mammal.

 

Never mind the fact that there's no evidence at all any of those phenomena even occur, much less are associated with those areas of the brain.

 

Oh, and random crap on the internet is not evidence of anything.

[JillSwift]

To start, it is nice to see the conversation has been engaged without too much heavy bashing going on...

Let's set some things straight though...

A. To state the brain does not actually emit Delta, Theta, Alpha, Mu, Beta, Gamma (and probably even other waves) through the ether (just like sounds, radio and microwave) is saying your head is stuck in isolated void of space with no interaction with the outside world.

No, saying the brain does not actually emit Delta, Theta, Alpha, Mu, Beta, and Gamma waves is saying the brain does not actually emit Delta, Theta, Alpha, Mu, Beta, and Gamma waves. Specifically, meaning these electromagnetic emissions are so weak as to be undetectable from any distance - thus the need to attach electrodes directly to the person being measured.

The brain interacts with the rest of the world through sensory (visual, audible, olfactory, tactile) and mechanical (gestures, voice, etc.) means.

 

B. The experiments to date are not valid, full of holes, poorly controlled and can all easily by sabotaged by 'Hi, I'm still at Radiohead...!'

I'm not sure what this means.

 

C. There is no problem with most of your statements such as noise, distortion and what I think you mean to be deferentiation, the cancelling and/or absorption of a signal. Just because the human brain is a dim light with low signal strength does not deny the possibility of telepathy. Also, the human has not fully developed the receptors in the brain, though there is being study done on this...

Studies are being done on what? Like I said, until you establish a phenomenon exists, you can't study its mechanics, you can only speculate.

 

D. I would like to strengthen my argument with, actually, interference and projection. Take a moving fan, for example, if you aim a vibration at it then you can even make it talk... 'Hellooozzzz allsss youzzzzz noobiessss outsss theressss...' Now, ok... take the same idea and apply to waves. If your ears can pick up vibrations which are then translated by the brain, then there is no reason with the correct receptor in your brain that you will not actually be able to communicate via Telepathy... though, if Human developed it now, then most likely everyone would go insane...

Now I'm confused. Does telepathy exist or not, by your measure?

 

If you're saying that there is potential for telepathy to develop within the framework of what we know of the cosmos, then this is pure speculation (and there's a forum for that here).

[dr.syntax]

I think there might be something to it. Have you ever noticed how some flocks of birds move as one at times. I have also seen this with schools of fish. It is not a gradual change in direction but seemingly instantaniously they all change direction simultaniously,together in a co-ordinated way so as to not run into each other. That seems like it could be some form of mental telepathy. ...ds

Edited September 6, 2009 by dr.syntax
spelling error

[iNow]

Why would you invoke the notion of telepathy when much simpler explanations exist and are readily available (for example, changes in the water density, electric sensing, etc.)?

 

http://www.skepdic.com/telepath.html

[Mokele]

I think there might be something to it. Have you ever noticed how some flocks of birds move as one at times. I have also seen this with schools of fish. It is not a gradual change in direction but seemingly instantaniously they all change direction simultaniously,together in a co-ordinated way so as to not run into each other. That seems like it could be some form of mental telepathy. ...ds

 

You are aware that in both cases, you're talking about species with both exceptional vision and fine-tuned motor control, right? What makes you think they're doing anything more than responding to the fish/birds immediately around them?

[Mr Skeptic]

There are no sensory receptors in the brain.

 

None. For anything. No senses at all. That's why you can do brain surgery without putting a patient fully under - there's no pain receptors.

 

I hear the brain has lots of detectors for nerve signals

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You are aware that in both cases, you're talking about species with both exceptional vision and fine-tuned motor control, right? What makes you think they're doing anything more than responding to the fish/birds immediately around them?

 

I thought that for fish it was a line of detectors that detect movement/change in water pressure, that allows them to school.

[Mokele]

Actually, a lot of fish that school in huge numbers such as herring, shad, sardines, etc. are members of a single family, Clupeidae, which lack lateral lines. Other groups do use them, but in truly huge schools, they may be useless due to the sheer number of signals.

[StringJunky]

I think there might be something to it. Have you ever noticed how some flocks of birds move as one at times. I have also seen this with schools of fish. It is not a gradual change in direction but seemingly instantaniously they all change direction simultaniously,together in a co-ordinated way so as to not run into each other. That seems like it could be some form of mental telepathy. ...ds

 

It only looks instantaneous because our own visual response is so slow relative to theirs...if you slow the flocks/shoals movement right down you'll see the 'domino effect' pass through them following from the leading birds/fish. I've seen it on Nature programs several times demonstrating it.

[dr.syntax]

It only looks instantaneous because our own visual response is so slow relative to theirs...if you slow the flocks/shoals movement right down you'll see the 'domino effect' pass through them following from the leading birds/fish. I've seen it on Nature programs several times demonstrating it.

 

to move as one so to speak for the reason you stated. I had never noticed a domino effect as you called it. It appeared to me that the birds on the outer edges of these flocks moved at the same time as those in front or in the center. I have not yet seen this in slow motion and for that reason will still with hold judgement. But I accept your explanation as a valid one with that caveat. Thank you for your thoughtful response. ...dr.syntax

[timetes]

In addition to what Capn' said, it does not follow that if it were true that brains gave off "brain waves" through the air (they don't, to be clear), that that would imply that they would be perceptible. For example, we give off infrared light but can't perceive it. Also, even if if it were perceptible, that wouldn't make it coherent or understandable as actual thoughts. I can hear the hard-drive of my computer spinning, but I can't read files by listening to that sound.

 

I had read about the infrared light...or just the light that humans give off....I had a mother in law who had dementia....and kept telling everyone she was in pain. They said no "we can tell by the face" WHAT .... she would come out of it every so often and say she was in pain, i begged for a pain shot for her, when they finally gave the ok, she died the day before that shot. Also a friend of mines cousin had MS died of cancer in a mental hospital that no one knew he had.....must have suffered bad as did my mother-in -law.

 

I read that different colors showed different emotions, happy, sad, pain....i guess they were studing this. What I wanted to see done was have law enforcement go to a mental facility and look thru and infrared scope and see who/what patients that could not speak for themselves were in pain by the ora they were emitting.

 

oh and widdekind......i lov you -your post are so interesting...and so logical.

[the tree]

pssst - infra-red light just means heat.

[D H]

oh and widdekind......i lov you -your post are so interesting...and so logical.

Nonsense, even nonsense all dressed up in pretty colors, is still nonsense.

[timetes]

pssst......the meaning is heat.....

 

im talking about the equipment used for law enforcement and fire detection and hunting. So if it shows heat from a human.....are the colors all red? I thought it showed different heat colors....if Im putting that correctly?

[insane_alien]

the colours(if there are any on the particular camera) are artificial.

 

usually they correspond to temperature.

 

has bugger all to do with emotions or telepathy though.