Li, KCl

[YT2095]

no, not in those terms, we were taught the elctromotive series, that sounds a little similar to your description looking at my old notes.

 

cheifly; Na, Mg, Al, Mn, Zn, Cd, Fe, Co, Ni, Sn, Pb, H, Cu, Hg, Ag, Pt and Au in that order.

 

[Edit] Hmmm... it would seem I owe you an appology, we didn`t cover Li or Ca in them. I`ve just looked up "Electromotive series" up on google and it has a more complete list than my old notes contain, you`re quite right about that lithium displacement.

 

ya learn something new every day!

[budullewraagh]

told ya so

 

so, i dont suppose you're going to be doing lithium replacement by the kilo soon?

[YT2095]

unlikely, however, I SHALL try and extract K metal, I don`t think it can be done without significant equipment, and although the hydroxide is easy to produce, KOH is filthy cheap anyway, and so it would be pointless to waste good (and valuable) Lithium making it

 

 

it might come in handy as a salt though, as I prefer Lithium red to Sr red in a firework anyway

[budullewraagh]

you wont make the hydroxide if you use motor oil, whose Ka is almost noneistent right?

[YT2095]

motor oil, KNO3 and Li right?

 

then I expect you heat this, correct?

 

I can`t see how they`re in the least bit soluble for an ion exchange to take place, perhaps in a Molten state in an inert atmosphere sure, I doubt the motor oil bit though.

[budullewraagh]

nope, theyre not at all soluble in the motor oil, but supposedly they do work. i've heard reports of people doing it and obtaining a metal that burns purple(k). they also do it in molten state in an inert atmosphere or in aqueous solution, although you get the hydroxide when aqueous. if i had a K source i'd do it myself, but unfortunately i can't obtain the nitrate or even the chloride around here.

[YT2095]

goto a healthfood shop and buy salt substitute KCl, granted it`s not firework worthy as an oxidiser, but making LiCl (perfectly usefull as a color agent and perhaps a chlorine donor to make the color more vivid, depending on the oxidiser). and you`ll still get your K metal if you can find a way

 

I`ll try a dry "thermite" type reaction first, I have a jar full of metalic Sodium here too, can that be used?

[budullewraagh]

Na won't replace K

K+ to K -2.924 E^0/V

Na+ to Na -2.713 E^0/V

[YT2095]

darn pity, I`ve been looking for some practical use for this sodium metal, OTHER THAN THE OBVIOUS! LOL )

[budullewraagh]

i'd like to see what that would do with a little peroxymonosulfuric acid

 

Ca+2 to Ca is 2.84

CaO(hyd) to Ca is -2.189 so i suppose you could do the CaO(hyd) to Ca if you really wanted to.

[YT2095]

actualy Ca metal I don`t have! and would like some, I have calcium oxide, but the temps needed to get a reaction would be fantastic! (probably beyond my Lab capabilities).

 

as for the 1`st part, wouldn`t that just make sodium persulphate? I already have potassium persulphate and ammonium persulphate, a sodium one would be a bit pointless really

[budullewraagh]

wouldn`t that just make sodium persulphate?

not just sodium persulphate, but certainly quite a bit of kinetic energy

[budullewraagh]

remember that peroxymonosulfuric acid (pirhana bath) is not so stable even on its own and mixture with Na replacing the H, that will probably make it explode

[YT2095]

totaly, but I tend to think "on paper" if that makes sense, as in Na and HNO3 will make sodium nitrate, the rather loud BANG, doesn`t factor into the equasion anywhere

[budullewraagh]

heh, i think in both ways. because of this i have decided not to do various things that would have led to certain death.

[YT2095]

yes and no really.

 

there are some things with certain precautions taken that you CAN do (although not reccomended), I`ve done many of these things and much to my dismay and sometimes enjoyment, they`re not often as "BAD" as they`re made out to be, but I only do small quantities at a time, and I tend to "Over Engineer" all personal security during such experiments, often to made a fool of because it DIDN`T go bang as it said it would in the text book LOL

but hey, better safe than sorry right!?

[budullewraagh]

oh, of course. i'm the same way. the first time i opened an AA battery i was afraid it would blow up on me so i researched for about an hour. then i ripped into it with my hacksaw, but i did it slowly and it took about half an hour. nothing happened at all. i was wearing gloves, goggles and face protection. i found carbon black and MnO2. needless to say, i was annoyed.

[YT2095]

heheheheh )

 

I rem my 1`st ever Lithium batt, I got to wondering "What is that sweet/pleasant smell", it turns out after a little research that it`s actualy di-ethyl ether!

 

now I`m on about 20 a week (just kidding) LOL

[K9]

Just to comment on the actual reaction, it apparently does not need a solvent, and as long as the materials are in contact and heated (and then allowed to react) the reaction should work just fine.

[YT2095]

at what temp, mesh, duration, atm?

[budullewraagh]

im quite sure that 1atm would be sufficient considering these are only solids. the Li you will have will be foil so that's fine enough. i'd finely powder your K salt tho. i dont know the temp however

[K9]

I personally have not done it, but tests will hopefully come soon. I haven't been doing much experiment recently because of my organic chem course, but now that it's over I should have time to start experimenting again. Maybe we should al try and compare notes?

 

Just roughly, from what was said in the book about David Hahn - he took the foil and KNO3 and placed them together in foil. Then he heated up oil until it was snapping and crackling and tossed in the foil. He then let it cool down and removed the metal strips which were now potassium as evidenced by the purple colour given off when placed in water.

[5614]

woa crap, i didnt see 6 or 7 pages, this is in reply to the 1st part of the first page!!!!

 

sorry bud but YTs right.

gold is more reactive than platinum..... i.e it should be gold first and then platinum last

also lithium is the least reactive of all the alkali metals, so K (potassium) should be before it!

im 100% certain.

[budullewraagh]

also lithium is the least reactive of all the alkali metals, so K (potassium) should be before it!

 

im 100% certain.

sorry but you are 100% wrong. did you not read my post on reduction potentials???

i will write them out again:

Li+ to Li: -3.040 E^(theta)/V

Rb+ to Rb: -2.924

K+ to K: -2.924

Cs+ to Cs: -2.923

Na+ to Na: -2.713

 

 

THAT is your group 1 activity series.

 

 

Group 2 activity series and reduction potentials:

Ra+2 to Ra: -2.916

Ba+2 to Ba: -2.92

Sr+2 to Sr: -2.89

Ca+2 to Ca: -2.84

Mg+2 to Mg: -2.054

Be+2 to Be: -1.97

 

 

Au+ to Au: 1.83

Pt+2 to Pt: 1.188

Ag+ to Ag: 0.7991

[jdurg]

Again though, you need to specify what type of reactivity you're talking about. If you're talking about reactivity with water, the order goes from lithium to sodium to potassium to rubidium to cesium in terms of low to high.