9.12 Protests

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Wow.

I think that video speaks for itself. It's hard to know whether the people interviewed are really representative of the crowd as a whole, but, wow.

It seems there's a growing clamor over how these protests are being stoked by Fox News. Literally at least in one case:

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And worse, apparently Fox News took out a full page ad that claimed that CNN (in addition to CBS, NBC, MSNBC, ABC, etc.) didn't cover the protests.

CNN's Rick Sanchez responded to that, with: "You lie"

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All that said, is anyone else disgusted that 9/11 is invoked to protest... government spending on healthcare? Never mind Hitler, fascism, etc.

And well, can it be argued that Glenn Beck isn't at the heart of all of this?

[JohnB]

All that said, is anyone else disgusted that 9/11 is invoked to protest

I'm not sure it was. It appeared to me that the person doing that (and calling repent) was stationary and not with the march at all. Marchers were moving past him all the time and some were clearly disgusted at his actions. Look at their faces.

 

The individual concerned was invoking 9/11, not the rally or marchers.

 

If a Democrat rally walked past some neo nazis, could I conclude the neos were part of the rally? Could I conclude that Dems support the neos? Nope.

[CaptainPanic]

That's a scary picture: Obama with a hitler-moustache. Those people clearly have no idea about history or politics... and it's an insult to the rest of the world who DO believe in peace and human rights.

 

As if Obama started arresting, imprisoning and torturing random people. As if Obama opened Guantanamo Bay. As if Obama opposes human rights. As if Obama is a racist.

 

Yes, he is socialist (for American standards - here in the Netherlands he'd be about center or even on the capitalist side of the spectrum)... but it's insulting to suggest that every socialist agrees with the ideas of Hitler.

 

And it's also pointless to try to discuss with fundamentalists - these people clearly are Christian fundamentalists - and if they ever get power again in the USA they're a lot more dangerous than any terrorist organisation anywhere in the world.

[JohnB]

That's a scary picture:

Not really, it's politics. Note the picture with this news article. One poster says "USA-Saudi-Euro Fascism" complete with a nice swastika.

 

Here we have protesters carrying signs that read "Impeach Bush for War Crimes."

 

At this London protest, placards show Bush with the comment "World's #1 Terrorist."

 

An interesting blog here has quite a few photos from the 2007 anti war in Iraq protest in San Francisco. Just scroll down and have a look.

 

We have someone hanging a President Bush doll.

 

Book stalls selling everything from Karl Marx to the latest in conspiracy theories.

 

Bumper stickers. I like "The war is a lie. 9/11 was an inside job."

 

I see the "International Solidarity Movement" was there. I remember them from years ago telling all and sundry that the stories of "Killing Fields" in Cambodia were CIA fabrications.

 

It seems there's a growing clamor over how these protests are being stoked by Fox News.

 

Well these people didn't need Fox to stir them up, they were quite capable of doing it themselves.

 

I mean these were peaceful protesters.

 

Yeah, wow.

[bascule]

I'm not sure it was. It appeared to me that the person doing that (and calling repent) was stationary and not with the march at all. Marchers were moving past him all the time and some were clearly disgusted at his actions. Look at their faces.

 

The individual concerned was invoking 9/11, not the rally or marchers.

 

The "individual concerned" is Glenn Beck. By the very nature of calling it the "9.12 Project" and holding protests day after 9/11 they're evoking 9/11 to make their point.

[CaptainPanic]

Not really, it's politics.

(I respond to your whole post, not just this remark)

 

The point I was trying to make is that Bush was indeed compared to a nazi. The Bush administration was regarded as a nazi party by some.

 

They neglected human rights, they started wars and built something that some would compare to a concentration camp (people are held against their will, without any form of trial, cut off from the world, while being tortured and kept under inhumane conditions).

 

But Obama however seems to be closing down that camp, and seems to be a complete non-racist.

 

I'm not saying that there's something wrong with protesters. Absolutely not. Protesting is a right, and anyone should be able to be on the streets with some signs and shout whatever they want (without breaking the laws - no racism please).

 

The point I was trying to make is that these protesters seem to miss the point entirely. I'd like to see the explanation why Obama can be compared to a nazi. Perhaps I also miss some information, but I am confident that some links can solve that.

 

[edit]And just for a clarification - I don't think it's very constructive to call anyone a nazi, and I believe more in good argumentation than in calling each other names. Some comments above are not my opinion (for example, I didn't write or publish the popular carnaval song 2-3 years ago in which the Americans in general were called the new nazis - but it was a popular song then)

Edited September 21, 2009 by CaptainPanic

[DrP]

Protesting is a right, and anyone should be able to be on the streets with some signs and shout whatever they want (without breaking the laws - no racism please).

 

The point I was trying to make is that these protesters seem to miss the point entirely.........

 

I agree - it's so sad that these people have either misunderstood the propaganda and lies being fed to them by the anti-gov brigade - or are just plan retarded for beliveing a load of crap. They have missed the point point entirely.

 

That bit of the video about the Czars was embarassing to watch - they protest SO stronly againts them, without even knowing what they do, who they are, when thy were appointed and by who. It's laughable - when they are told that, actually, they have been around since Regan - they look gob smacked. It's almost they are thinking "Hmmm..... we can't use that against him, what other complete bollocks can we come up with now so people will turn against the govnt". Muppets - Quote" we don't want people we don't know advising the president!" - Idiots - government advisors have been around forever.

[insane_alien]

when they were asked simple questions about what exactly they were protesting there seemed to be a uniform 'i don't know'.

 

how the hell can you protest something when you don't even know what it is? surely some part of them asked 'hang on! i have no idea why i'm protesting. why am i doing this?'

[The Bear's Key]

It's almost they are thinking "Hmmm..... we can't use that against him, what other complete bollocks can we come up with now so people will turn against the govnt".

What's so funny about people not trusting government, is who's really supplying that advice: government politicians.

 

 

But it does makes sense if you were to paraphrase a bit. "Don't trust government" is really just another way of saying...

 

"Trust us and not Dems (or liberals)"

 

and/or

 

"Capitalism gets things done, let it replace government"

[DrP]

when they were asked simple questions about what exactly they were protesting there seemed to be a uniform 'i don't know'.

 

how the hell can you protest something when you don't even know what it is?

 

 

because they are sheep! and the people that knowingly stirr them into a deeper ignorant stupor are baaaa..stards!

[JohnB]

The "individual concerned" is Glenn Beck. By the very nature of calling it the "9.12 Project" and holding protests day after 9/11 they're evoking 9/11 to make their point.

 

My apologies. I didn't realise that the protest was called the "9.12" project. I thought you were talking about the twit in the first vid.

 

On that basis I have to agree with you. "9.12 Project" is in, at best, extremely poor taste.

 

I'd like to see the explanation why Obama can be compared to a nazi.

Hmm, talking past each other I think. My point was simply that it is fashionable to call your opponent a nazi for political purposes. To me such things are nothing more than political rhetoric and are used by both sides with vigour.

 

I would think that the only people who would compare Gitmo to a concentration camp are those who have no idea what a concentration camp actually was.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQd0XWKnxes

 

(Warning, wartime footage taken by Allied troops to document concentration camp atrocities.)

 

Still think the comparison is in any way reasonable? Gitmo might be the worse aspects of an internment camp and prison camp, but concentration camp? No way.

[Sisyphus]

Hyperbolic ad hominem and protestors furious for reasons they can't actually articulate are not limited to any particular ideology. That's true. These guys are particularly annoying, though, and calling it "9/12" sums it up pretty much perfectly. It's not about policy at all. It's about trying to recapture a feeling, the paranoia, bloolust, and unification behind right-wing populist rhetoric that we all remember from the weeks and months after 9/11/2001.

[CaptainPanic]

Hmm, talking past each other I think. My point was simply that it is fashionable to call your opponent a nazi for political purposes. To me such things are nothing more than political rhetoric and are used by both sides with vigour.

 

I would think that the only people who would compare Gitmo to a concentration camp are those who have no idea what a concentration camp actually was.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQd0XWKnxes

 

(Warning, wartime footage taken by Allied troops to document concentration camp atrocities.)

 

Still think the comparison is in any way reasonable? Gitmo might be the worse aspects of an internment camp and prison camp, but concentration camp? No way.

For the record, I know quite a bit about WWII, and I visited a concentration camp (Auschwitz). I know what I am talking about, and I merely told you what is being said in protests.

 

We don't seem to disagree with each other, but I still like to add some info here for comparison. The National Geographic Channel has a nice documentary about Guantanamo Bay. They were allowed inside and the documentary seems uncensored (and therefore "must-see" material for Americans I think).

 

I believe the documentary is called "Inside Guantanamo", but I saw it on TV (in the Netherlands), and therefore I am not sure if the link is the same thing. I cannot find it online (or, at least, this link (clicking on "video") doesn't work on my pc).

 

 

More on topic:

It's very worrying that you just call it "political rhetoric" when people say things that make absolutely no sense. Unfortunately, it seems the say that politics are going worldwide.

Edited September 22, 2009 by CaptainPanic

[bascule]

Looks like Rick Sanchez reacted to the second video I linked, of a Fox News producer getting the crowd riled up:

 

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[CaptainPanic]

Looks like CNN isn't being "objective" or "impartial" either here. Although it seems they are right here... They shouldn't cover a story about a conflict between themselves and another party.

They are impartial about the protest, but not about the "lies" and about FOX news.

 

I'm not sure it's a good thing that news agencies are starting to throw dirt at each other. That's the job of the opinion-makers, of comedians and of columnists.

[JohnB]

For the record, I know quite a bit about WWII, and I visited a concentration camp (Auschwitz). I know what I am talking about, and I merely told you what is being said in protests.

 

If you thought the comment was directed at you personally, I apologise as that was not my intention. I was referring to the "some" in your comment;

built something that some would compare to a concentration camp

 

Unfortunately comparing any sort of confinement facility that protesters or some group dislikes to a "Concentration Camp" appears to have become somewhat fashionable. I believe this to be terribly wrong as it lessens the impact of what went on there and cheapens the memory of those who perished.

 

We even had a radio DJ suggest that an overweight Aussie actress could spend some time in one to lose weight. Yes he's been sacked, but he should have got a smack in the mouth.

 

It's just one of those things that really p*sses me off. By forgetting the reality of what happened, we increase the chance of it happening again.

 

Unfortunately, it seems the say that politics are going worldwide.

I have to agree. I put it down to the era of the "sound bite". A rowdy crowd yelling nonsense will make the 6 o'clock news, a logical discourse on why your group disagrees with a policy won't.

 

"News" is about what happened, not why it happened. Anybody who gets their information from the news, regardless of what channel they watch, is only going to get a small part of the story.