Green Xenon Posted October 4, 2009 Posted October 4, 2009 Hi: I'm looking for a laptop that: 1. Is fully-compatible with the Linux Live CD and does not need any HDD or any non-volatile RAM. 2. Uses dynamic RAM for volatile memory with no static RAM at all. 3. Has a wireless internet card in it. 4. Is new and not used. 5. Compromises* among the following: 5a. Least expensive 5b. Has the most amount of volatile memory *I say compromise because usually if the system is less expensive, it will have less memory. So I am looking for the least expensive with the most amount of memory [dynamic volatile memory] for the price I'm paying. The reason I need so much volatile memory is because I don't plan to use any HDD or non-volatile RAM on this laptop. Linux Live CD doesn't need any non-volatile RAM and can boot from the CD. Thanks, Green
bascule Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 Why do you care about SRAM? I hate to break it to you, but the cache of pretty much any CPU is going to be SRAM. This is a very strange configuration for a computer you wish to permanently own.
Mr Skeptic Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 Well, one drawback to this is that a livecd takes longer to boot and do stuff than does a proper installation. CDs have a slower read rate than hard drives as well. Also you can't store information on your computer, though I suppose that would be excellent antivirus protection. Running livecd you are also pretty much losing the use of your CD drive. What about running linux from a flash drive? That has the advantage of being small, light, having write capability, low power usage, near zero seek time, ... Maybe a flash drive with a read-only mode if you consider that a feature.
Klaynos Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 How about a Dell mini 10v with ubuntu, it's all solid state....
Green Xenon Posted October 5, 2009 Author Posted October 5, 2009 Well, one drawback to this is that a livecd takes longer to boot and do stuff than does a proper installation. CDs have a slower read rate than hard drives as well. Also you can't store information on your computer, though I suppose that would be excellent antivirus protection. Running livecd you are also pretty much losing the use of your CD drive. What about running linux from a flash drive? That has the advantage of being small, light, having write capability, low power usage, near zero seek time, ... Maybe a flash drive with a read-only mode if you consider that a feature. Can't the info from the live CD be read into the PC and then temporarily stored in the volatile RAM chips as opposed to constantly using the CD drive? That is what I would like to do. Use the VRAM chips as an HDD substitute. Now of course, when the PC is offed, all info is lost but I'm okay with that. I don't plan to save anything for long-term on the laptop. Would you suggest I buy this: http://www.axis.com/products/dev/index.htm It's Linux on a chip. Hopefully it doesn't have any non-volatile RAM and does not need an HDD.
bascule Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 Can't the info from the live CD be read into the PC and then temporarily stored in the volatile RAM chips as opposed to constantly using the CD drive? That won't help the boot-up time. If I were you I'd go for a completely solid state computer.
Green Xenon Posted October 5, 2009 Author Posted October 5, 2009 That won't help the boot-up time. If I were you I'd go for a completely solid state computer. Where can I find a solid-state computer laptop that does not have or need any non-volatile RAM?
Fuzzwood Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 Solid state = non volatile ram. Why the heck do you want that?
JillSwift Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Green, you're not going to find what you're looking for. Storage is the cornerstone of computing, so what ever this special need is you have won't be filled by normal manufacturers. The closest thing I can think of to get you where you appear to be headed is a laptop or notebook with a small SSD in place of a hard drive on which your OS will live, configured to be read-only.
Green Xenon Posted October 6, 2009 Author Posted October 6, 2009 Solid state = non volatile ram. Huh? Merged post follows: Consecutive posts merged The closest thing I can think of to get you where you appear to be headed is a laptop or notebook with a small SSD in place of a hard drive on which your OS will live, configured to be read-only. Are there any SSDs that use volatile-only RAM and absolutely no non-volatile RAM?
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 That would not be a disk. That would be regular RAM. Why do you insist on not having non-volatile storage?
Green Xenon Posted October 6, 2009 Author Posted October 6, 2009 That would not be a disk. That would be regular RAM. Why do you insist on not having non-volatile storage? Security purposes.
Mr Skeptic Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Some hard drives have a jumper that you can use to switch them to read only. I think that some flash drives do too. Since these are in hardware, malicious software cannot change that.
bascule Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Solid state = non volatile ram. Why the heck do you want that? Yeah, you seem... confused. The colloquial definition of solid state is "no moving parts". I suppose you could be using NVRAM to refer to FlashROM, which is, well, quaint to me. I have a Dell Mini 9. Its "hard drive" is a Mini PCI-E card with four FlashROM chips on it giving me a total of 32GB storage and performance far beyond what you'd get with a normal hard drive or even typical flash media like most SD cards. The entire thing has no moving parts and is completely solid state.
forufes Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 NETBOOK!! asus's eepc comes to mind, although every major computer manufacturing company has it's own netbook, sony's vio can fit in your jean's pocket, but freaking expensive(what else is new with vio?) the oldest eepc model doesn't even have a hard disk, so you can play a movie and wave your laptop in the air without hearing the scratching noise of the needle on the disc's surface, also it'll be cooler, won't suffocate the life out of your lap, and you can sleep with it on cuz you won't be bothered by the vrrrr of it spinning.. i guess there are two models, one with 8GB one with 16GB flash memory. the other more expensive (and heavier) models which come with 40 or 80 (other netbooks 120 or even 160)GB harddisk you should ignore of course. also when wanting Ubuntu..the eepc without an operating system is actually cheaper than the one with XP, so you'll be saving money conveniently.. it has wireless and my guess on the price of a model with these specifications would be around 250$ if not less. check this out: http://event.asus.com/eeepc/comparison/eeepc_comparison.htm the lower the model is in the table, the cheaper and older it is, note that the ones at the bottom are said 7 inch screens, but the laptop is as big as a 10 inch, the frame is disgustingly HUGE, but it's probably the cheapest laptop in the world.. also, so i don't "cheat" you, the resolution is almost half that of normal laptops, you'd have to scroll in all ways to view a web page, especially with a dumb browser. so put that into consideration when checking the table.
JillSwift Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Are there any SSDs that use volatile-only RAM and absolutely no non-volatile RAM? No, but if you write-lock it, that won't make any difference. Nothing other than the boot software would ever be written to the disk, all else would be stored in RAM. I see now you're after "no trace" style security. I'm not sure using DRAM will give you any more security than SRAM would, in that case. Both have readable residual charges after power is removed. However, getting to those charges is wildly unlikely. Memory clears itself on re-application of power for the sake of maximal speed.
Green Xenon Posted October 6, 2009 Author Posted October 6, 2009 No, but if you write-lock it, that won't make any difference. Nothing other than the boot software would ever be written to the disk, all else would be stored in RAM. I see now you're after "no trace" style security. I'm not sure using DRAM will give you any more security than SRAM would, in that case. Both have readable residual charges after power is removed. However, getting to those charges is wildly unlikely. Memory clears itself on re-application of power for the sake of maximal speed. Doesn't DRAM have a shorter period of data remanance [when offed] than SRAM?
insane_alien Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 not really, SRAM just doesn't need refreshed when it is running. but as soon as you power down it loses the data. with DRAM you need to keep refreshing it when it is powered otherwise it'll lose the data.
JillSwift Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Doesn't DRAM have a shorter period of data remanance [when offed] than SRAM? As Insane_Alien said: No, not really. And again, it's one thing to have residual capacitor charge, and quite another to read it. RAM simply isn't a security problem like it was back when it was made of heavier capacitance material - and it hasn't been in ages.
Mr Skeptic Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Hm, it seems to me that there should be software to randomize ram.
insane_alien Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Hm, it seems to me that there should be software to randomize ram. or you can just cut power and it all goes to zero.
bascule Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 or you can just cut power and it all goes to zero. Actually that's a popular misconception: http://citp.princeton.edu/memory/ Contrary to popular assumption, DRAMs used in most modern computers retain their contents for seconds to minutes after power is lost, even at operating temperatures and even if removed from a motherboard. Although DRAMs become less reliable when they are not refreshed, they are not immediately erased, and their contents persist sufficiently for malicious (or forensic) acquisition of usable full-system memory images. We show that this phenomenon limits the ability of an operating system to protect cryptographic key material from an attacker with physical access. We use cold reboots to mount attacks on popular disk encryption systems — BitLocker, FileVault, dm-crypt, and TrueCrypt — using no special devices or materials. We experimentally characterize the extent and predictability of memory remanence and report that remanence times can be increased dramatically with simple techniques. We offer new algorithms for finding cryptographic keys in memory images and for correcting errors caused by bit decay. Though we discuss several strategies for partially mitigating these risks, we know of no simple remedy that would eliminate them.
Green Xenon Posted October 7, 2009 Author Posted October 7, 2009 Actually that's a popular misconception: http://citp.princeton.edu/memory/ Would Twin-Transistor RAM also have this problem? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_Transistor_RAM
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