mooeypoo Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 POST REPLY: WELL THERE IT IS. I clicked unto it and you found the source of the quote. I am beside myself with I don`t even know what. VERY VERY PLEASED. NOT FOR BEING RIGHT, that is not it at all. For some reason it does renew some feeling of hope and purpose inside me that seemed to be dying in me. Thank you ever so much. Sincerely, ...Dr.Syntax Imagine how much grief you'd have spared yourself if you supplied the link along with the quote. Rules exist for a reason, dr.syntax. We don't ask you for citation just to be annoying, we are asking you for citation to make sure these type of incidents don't happen. ~moo
dr.syntax Posted October 19, 2009 Author Posted October 19, 2009 (edited) Imagine how much grief you'd have spared yourself if you supplied the link along with the quote. Rules exist for a reason, dr.syntax. We don't ask you for citation just to be annoying, we are asking you for citation to make sure these type of incidents don't happen. REPLY: Dear mooey, I tried every wording combination I could think of and gave it up after reading that second website I provided. It convinced me it was a hopeless struggle and I gave up on it. I am so very grateful to Mr.Skeptic for having the what for it took to dig up a reliable source. Thank you and the rest of the rest of the Administration for not writing me off as a hopeless neurotic. I still am a bit of a neurotic. I am well aware of that. But I do try. I know I am still able to learn and change. Regards, Dr.Syntax Edited October 19, 2009 by swansont fix quote tag 1
swansont Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 Lesson learned, then. That's why it's a good idea to go looking for citations beforehand, so you can avoid passing along unverified, possibly incorrect information.
liarliarpof Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 For a good look at Einstein's own words, I recommend "Out of My Later Years" - a collection of short essays which span a wide range of topics. -1
Mr Skeptic Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 I finally found the quote in context: http://www.gaia.com/quotes/1005/a-human-being-is-a-part-of-the/by-albert-einstein A human being is a part of the whole, called by us "Universe," a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely, but the striving for such achievement is in itself a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security. Albert Einstein : German-Swiss-American mathematical physicist, famous for his theories of relativity. Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955) Source: Mathematical Circles: Mathematical Circles Adieu & Return to Mathematical Circles Read more: http://www.gaia.com/quotes/1005/a-human-being-is-a-part-of-the/by-albert-einstein#ixzz0UR8vlRHp -1
CaptainPanic Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 I don't think he means physical evolution, but cultural evolution - which would be a call for people to change, IMO. Kind of like MLK's "I have a dream" of course he knew it would not happen quickly, but he hoped. You don't think, but you're not sure. And while we disagree on this point, the rest of the discussion cannot start.
dr.syntax Posted October 20, 2009 Author Posted October 20, 2009 I finally found the quote in context:http://www.gaia.com/quotes/1005/a-human-being-is-a-part-of-the/by-albert-einstein A human being is a part of the whole, called by us "Universe," a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely, but the striving for such achievement is in itself a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security. Albert Einstein : German-Swiss-American mathematical physicist, famous for his theories of relativity. Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955) Source: Mathematical Circles: Mathematical Circles Adieu & Return to Mathematical Circles Read more: http://www.gaia.com/quotes/1005/a-human-being-is-a-part-of-the/by-albert-einstein#ixzz0UR8vlRHp REPLY: Mission accomplished,well done. I tried very hard to find this information with out success. That was a tough one to nail down. I thought your previous links established it`s authenticity. As I said before I am very grateful to you for doing this and understand it was done on my behalf. No small thing, a lot of effort went into this. Thank you Mr Skeptic, Sincerely, ...Dr.Syntax
Mr Skeptic Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 Well, I was more interested in the context than only authenticity. An authentic quote when taken out of context can be just as bad as a fake quote.
iNow Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 So, now we can discuss the thread topic? Is the idea that... based on that quote... Einstein was a vegetarian or advocated it? I'm not sure that holds water.
mooeypoo Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 So, now we can discuss the thread topic? Is the idea that... based on that quote... Einstein was a vegetarian or advocated it? I'm not sure that holds water. Or what difference does it make? Other than discussing Einstein's personal thoughts about this for the sake of history, I don't quite see how this should (or does) affect anything regarding either his theories or our view of him..? Einstein's contribution to science is supported because of its scientific evidence, not because of his persona. For that matter, it's a well known fact he was a lousy husband and father; but so what? We can discuss whether or not he was a good person or what sort of personal beliefs he had, but I don't quite see how it has anything to do with how we should perceive him as a scientist or his contributions to science.
Mr Skeptic Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 Well, from the quote I found with context, it appears Einstein is saying that our feeling of self is really quite a delusion, and we are part of a greater system. In reality we are connected with a much larger system, not only for sustenance, but also a portion of our "self". Others have mentioned this as well; a notebook can in a sense be an extension of our brain, without which some people would be quite lost. Same with calculators, computers, and other tools. Though Einstein seems to be focusing more on the ecosystem there, and also on empathy.
JillSwift Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 Well, from the quote I found with context, it appears Einstein is saying that our feeling of self is really quite a delusion, and we are part of a greater system. In reality we are connected with a much larger system, not only for sustenance, but also a portion of our "self". Others have mentioned this as well; a notebook can in a sense be an extension of our brain, without which some people would be quite lost. Same with calculators, computers, and other tools. Though Einstein seems to be focusing more on the ecosystem there, and also on empathy. I agree with your interpretation. I also agree with Einstein on the particular point that being an "individual" is something of an illusion. We do have an individual point of view, but we are no more separate from the universe than any other construct within it.</wax type="philisophical">
dr.syntax Posted October 21, 2009 Author Posted October 21, 2009 Or what difference does it make? Other than discussing Einstein's personal thoughts about this for the sake of history, I don't quite see how this should (or does) affect anything regarding either his theories or our view of him..? Einstein's contribution to science is supported because of its scientific evidence, not because of his persona. For that matter, it's a well known fact he was a lousy husband and father; but so what? We can discuss whether or not he was a good person or what sort of personal beliefs he had, but I don't quite see how it has anything to do with how we should perceive him as a scientist or his contributions to science. REPLY: To me it is his MOST IMPORTANT contribution to scientists themselves,and because of that, to science itself. That contribution being that he considered it extremely important to widen our awareness of other living creatures , and not to divorce ourselves from the awareness of other living beings including ourselves and other people in the name of scientific objectivity. This scientific objectivity, seems to me to be embraced by many scientists as somewhat of an important virtue or a very important virtue. I believe this so called" scientific objectivity" is a very unhealthy and very dangerous way of looking at the World. Scientists in many respects are the most powerful group of people in the World. To me, anyone who takes an honest look at human history cannot deny this fact. Without a doubt so very much good has been a result of scientific endeavors. Also, without a doubt we have entered into a period where many scientific endeavors are of such an extremely dangerous nature they could very well lead to many different catastrophic events which could lead to the collapse of civilization or even the extinction of the human race. That capability has existed since the advent of nuclear bombs. A growing list of others would include: AI researh,gene modification, chemical and biological warfare technology,robotics , nano technology, and others. Many famous scientists have expressed such concerns for many years now. People including Albert Einstein,Richard Feynman,Robert Oppenheimer,John Von Neumann,Stanislaw Ulman,Carl Sagan,Issac Asimov and so very many others. I`ll conclude by saying: I see no inherent virtue in scientific objectivity that divorces itself from humane concerns. Rapid scientific advancement is already unstoppable. What is needed is some humane guidance . Albert Einstein`s quoted statements in this regard is a part of that guidance so desperately needed at this very time for all scientists if the human race is to have any hope of surviving even another 30 years in my opinion. Sincerely, Dr.Syntax
Mr Skeptic Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 Dr syntax, don't you mean "pursuit of knowledge" where you said "scientific objectivity"?
dr.syntax Posted October 21, 2009 Author Posted October 21, 2009 Dr syntax, don't you mean "pursuit of knowledge" where you said "scientific objectivity"? REPLY: my meaning of " scientific objectivity" would include "the pursuit of knowledge" for it`s own sake, with little or no concern for the consequences of the introduction of this knowledge`s likely effects on Earth`s creatures.Your Friend, ...Dr.Syntax
liarliarpof Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 As a Scientist, Einstein was a die-hard Objectivist. This was the basis for his stubborn refusal to accept the 'Copenhagen Interpretation' of QM. But at the end of the day, like the rest of us, he went home to pursue other interests. I believe it safe to speculate his love of the violin was quite subjective and not perceived by him as an object with vibrating strings, nodes, anti-nodes, etc. We must take care not to view Einstein, as well as others, as momoliths.
iNow Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 As a Scientist, Einstein was a die-hard Objectivist. Either you don't know what the word objectivism refers to, or you're simply repeating a falsehood you heard somewhere else. Objectivism didn't begin until the late 1950s/early 1960s... Yet Einstein died in 1955. The concept of linear time seems to negate your point.
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