Are Heterosexuals inherently Homo-Phobic

[admiral_ju00]

First of all, we need to make a distinction here.

 

Homophobic will probably apply to more to heterosexual males than to heterosexual females.

 

The Homophobic phenomenon is mostly it is due to peer-pressure.

Case in point - The current executive branch of the US Gov't voiced it's opposition to gay marriage. What's worse, they(Bush) wants to carve an amendment in the Constitution of the United States saying so. Then there are various religious movements, then there's the bible, etc. Also heterosexual males are more likely to do gay bashing than heterosexual women. Most or at least a Lot of people view female(gays) as something that can be 'cured' (Including the 3rd Reich) where as (male)Gays are condemned for eternity. People including physicians(back in the 70's-80's were and many still are calling AIDS as Gods Punishment of gays(they were talking mostly men here).

Another note, it is not something that one(homosexual) will Not just boast about(being gay) in a circle of heterosexual friends(hence the need for many to remain in the closet).

 

Most males also see femail(gays) as attractive and lucrative. One of my own girlfriends was bisexual, but let's not go into all that. Myself, I have a few gay friends(male and female) at the present time so they get to bring this conversation to light quite frequently(for the better or worse).

 

So, with so much stacked against you, how can you fight it?

Key words here are Understanding and Respect, but that would mean that the person(s) must be open to novel ideas and be able to overcome their personal prejudice.

 

{edit}

 

Oh yeah, forgot to add this to the pot.

 

Since the dawn of mankind, it almost always was dominated by Males and these times are by far no exception(but it is getting a bit better). Simply look around, but until late 80's / early 90's, men had almost no competition with females in the industry(pick one of your choice). Now, you see lots of females in the executive position of the corporate sector or other positions of power. Men are not men enough to share their authority fully or equally to women. The most popular idea is that if you're a Man, then you Must be Heterosexual; You must be masculine; You must be dominant and You Must be White, a Bully. You could say that one requires to look and act like Silvester Stalone or Arnold Schwarzenegger. Because these guys do not cry when hurt(or at least they don't in the movies), they don't whyne, etc.

 

So, how can men accept other men who act femininely? The answer is that they can't.

[Sayonara]

Arnold Schwarzenegger cries in films. End of Days for a start.

 

He's so gay.

[Phi for All]

"It's the most difficult [decision] I've made in my entire life, except the one I made in 1978 when I decided to get a bikini wax." –Arnold Schwarzenegger

 

"My friends don't want me to mention Kurt's name, because of all the recent Nazi stuff and the U.N. controversy, but I love him and Maria does too, and so thank you, Kurt." –Arnold Schwarzenegger

 

 

I think most guys will mildly put down gay men due to peer pressure, but I think the guys who are the most vehement about it are worried because they are latent homosexuals themselves. -Phi for All

[kether]

I think they are. Altough they would like to think that they arent homo phobic. subconsiously every heterosexual is homophobic.

 

"Gilgamesh" is one of the oldest stories known to man. Carved on stone tablets aprox 5000 years ago. It tells the story for those that dont know, of LOVE. Mans love for man. A very special and powerful love. A knowing love.

"Gilgamesh" was a revered king and quite the superman.

could it be that Knowledge of death is what realy created homophobia? And that certainty of death that still drives it today?

However as a subculture homosexuality during the electronic revolution has begun to be accepted again and even promoted on some levels.

Could it be that death itself is closer to being conquered than we can imagine?

Homophobia will die when death is know more perhaps?

First cloning, designer babies, Gay marriages etc etc. All things in place to allow for a smoother transition. Love is here to stay. Everyone better get used to it.

 

Gilgamesh part of tablet 1 >

 

He who has seen everything, I will make known (?) to the lands.

I will teach (?) about him who experienced all things,

... alike,

Anu granted him the totality of knowledge of all.

He saw the Secret, discovered the Hidden,

he brought information of (the time) before the Flood.

He went on a distant journey, pushing himself to exhaustion,

but then was brought to peace.

He carved on a stone stela all of his toils,

and built the wall of Uruk-Haven,

the wall of the sacred Eanna Temple, the holy sanctuary.

Look at its wall which gleams like copper(?),

inspect its inner wall, the likes of which no one can equal!

[Guest Jaeke Inopre]

Homo (same) phobia (fear). Fear of the same sex right?

Arachno (Spider) phobia (fear). Fear of spiders.

So when I see a spider, I run in fear, or react someway in fear to kill it.

And when I see a homosexual, I run in fear as well. As if they were a spider.

Do you see the flawed and inherantly stupid logic in even using this term?

[NavajoEverclear]

like JDona's first post, it'd depend on what stage of life a person is. Children, though they have some concept on sexuality, dont really care about preference, until its become a learned behavior to treat them a certain way. After puberty tho, i think homophobia is kind of natural for straight people, tho as you get more mature you can overcome it.

 

Isn't it interesting how this site has such a fascination with the topic of homosexuality? Not accusing, i started the second most popular thread on the subject, and the first most popular homosexuality thread, is the second most popular thread out of all of them. (looking on the top 20 most replied)

Probably cause its a big social and political debate this year especially.

[Phi for All]

So when I see a spider, I run in fear, or react someway in fear to kill it.

You're afraid of spiders?

 

You're so gay.

 

 

 

I do see the flawed logic. The other night I heard a comedian that made me laugh. He said, "If it weren't for the sex, I could be gay. Other than that, it's just hanging out with your buddies."

[NavajoEverclear]

Which frightens you more:

1) An actual homosexual encounter where someone of the same sex offers to get intimate with you' date=' or

2) Having a heterosexual think you seriously considered accepting the homosexual's offer?[/quote']

 

Using that is a good way to determine whether its internal or social. I'd have to say number two, i think most people would agree. I guess it doesn't neccisarily tell tho, it'd still be kinda creepy to get such a request--- but on the otherhand, maybe its just been deeply culturally engrained so that we act the same alone, as if people were around. Thats true with lots of other behavioral issues. Fear of ever being found to do something against the norm motivates us to simply not consider it an option.

[Phi for All]

Fear of ever being found to do something against the norm motivates us to simply not consider it an option.

I think this is what I was getting at. Take away the fear of force, the fear of being thought of as abberant, and the fear of judgement and you might actually be flattered by the offer.

 

George Carlin used to do a bit on whether or not homophobia was natural as opposed to normal. Put yourself in a small, totally dark room, you're there with another person, you're both naked and embracing. You're rubbing them, they're rubbing you, it feels great. Suddenly the lights come on and you see that you're with a person of the same sex, you're conditioned to go, "Ahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!"

 

But it felt good.

 

I realize you'd be able to feel which sex a person was in this situation, but the idea is to focus on the physical instead of the mental and you find it's all stimulus/response.

[bloodhound]

hmm. is there something u would like to tell us Phi??

[Phi for All]

hmm. is there something u would like to tell us Phi??

Yes, bloodhound. My wife and I hope someday you are comfortable enough with your own sexuality to leave the homosexuals alone. They're not after you, I promise.

 

They hardly even talk about you anymore.

[Sayonara]

The term homophobia is an imperfect one.

 

Socially, it is used to indicate distaste or hatred of homosexuals (usually male homosexuals, to be honest). In clinical terms it is resentment of homosexuality stemming from the belief that one may have or have had homosexual feelings.

[Phi for All]

Socially, it is used to indicate distaste or hatred of homosexuals (usually male homosexuals, to be honest).

Strange, isn't it? You would think hetero men would hate lesbians for competing with us for the female's attention. Two guys together means less opposition in the race for the women, but the homo males are the ones who take the heat from hetero males.

 

How strange. How weird. How queer.

[Sayonara]

I like the "ewwwww homofags - they're sick! ... whoar yeah I like to see lesbians" dichotomy best.

[Phi for All]

As if every lesbian couple is simply aching for a man to make them a threesome...

[kether]

"Gilgamesh" is one of the oldest stories known to man. Carved on stone tablets aprox 5000 years ago. It tells the story for those that dont know, of LOVE. Mans love for man. A very special and powerful love. A knowing love.

"Gilgamesh" was a revered king and quite the superman.

could it be that Knowledge of death is what realy created homophobia? And that certainty of death that still drives it today?

However as a subculture homosexuality during the electronic revolution has begun to be accepted again and even promoted on some levels.

Could it be that death itself is closer to being conquered than we can imagine?

Homophobia will die when death is know more perhaps?

First cloning, designer babies, Gay marriages etc etc. All things in place to allow for a smoother transition. Love is here to stay. Everyone better get used to it.

 

This link links to most of my Posts (although some have been removed)

 

http://www.daviddarling.info/works/SoulSearch/SoulSearch_ch1.html

[SurfSciGuy]

That's something of a double standard. Any idea why one repulses you but the other does not?

 

I often wonder why many blokes get flustered about men having sex together but don't have any compunction whatsoever about bragging that they've done exactly the same thing with a woman.

 

To be fair it's all to do with porn. Most heterosexual males perceptions of lesbianism are based on "lesbian" porno - which is designed for the heterosexual male market, not on actual lesbian sexual relations. Men's idea of male homosexuality is often based on the thought of some other bloke sticking his tonga into your bum, which to a heterosexual male seems like a deeply unpleasant experience - most heterosexual men have probably not seen much gay porn. Basically Lesbianism is "sanitised" and depersonalised by the sex industry to sell to the average straight guy (the biggest market), whereas male homosexuality has not enjoyed this dubious marketing make-over (probably explains why opinion amongst women is divided).

 

Of course I am glibbly generalising but it's probably kinda true.

[kether]

To be fair it's all to do with porn. Most heterosexual males perceptions of lesbianism are based on "lesbian" porno - which is designed for the heterosexual male market, not on actual lesbian sexual relations. Men's idea of male homosexuality is often based on the thought of some other bloke sticking his tonga into your bum, which to a heterosexual male seems like a deeply unpleasant experience - most heterosexual men have probably not seen much gay porn. Basically Lesbianism is "sanitised" and depersonalised by the sex industry to sell to the average straight guy (the biggest market), whereas male homosexuality has not enjoyed this dubious marketing make-over (probably explains why opinion amongst women is divided).

 

Of course I am glibbly generalising but it's probably kinda true.[/quote

 

Good OBSERVATIONS. Adding a little. Porn acts as a mirror as well as a trigger.

If an image is shown to you that offends, why is this? Because you HAD to view it? Or WANT to view it?

[Sayonara]

Of course I am glibbly generalising but it's probably kinda true.

I'm sure that is definitely the larger part of it all, yes. On some level though most men probably realise the lie.

 

By the "bragging that they've done exactly the same thing with a woman" part, I actually meant the tonga and bum bit.

Whenever I hear the must-be-oh-so-manly-or-I'll-have-no-sexual-credibility blokes talking about gaydom, at least one of them has to get that immortal line in there, "if anyone tried to stick their cck in me I'd lamp 'em". Yet somehow it's ok for their gf to expect it after eight pints and a curry.

[john5746]

I remember seeing something about a study of straight men watching gay porn. The men that had the largest increase in penil growth recorded the most homophobic behavior. I'll try to find out if it was actually proven to be the case.

 

It could be that men who are tempted that way are the most aggressive against it. A defensive mechanism?

[kether]

I remember seeing something about a study of straight men watching gay porn. The men that had the largest increase in penil growth recorded the most homophobic behavior. I'll try to find out if it was actually proven to be the case.

 

It could be that men who are tempted that way are the most aggressive against it. A defensive mechanism?

 

another possibilty in such a test could be that a memory is triggered. ie. Childhood abuse or what is known as sexual rehearsal (doctors and nurses) causing memory arousal.

The difference between HAD to watch and WANT to watch as you I feel indicated.

 

"If" homophobia acts as a mask created by men with gay leanings, we could assume that this charade maybe because of fear/shame, peer pressure etc.

What is bothersome here to me is "Who created the shame/fear in the first place" A homophobe? Something of a paradox unless self loathing is an inherant human trait?

Phobia's are passed down through each new generation. So to detect its true origin (creation) would be difficult. We do have written history to help and perhaps mislead us of course.

Are there any homophobic animals? I imagine if a gay dog for instance tried to mount a hetro dog and persisted in doing so, the hetro dog may get pretty pissed off. Would this be enough to create a homophobic trait?

If many moons ago Homosexual man was an agressor then I suppose its possible. I dont know of any written history that may support this idea though?

I posted before that it maybe the knowledge of death that created homophobia. As far as I know we are the only creature on this planet that is aware it will die? (elephant graveyards are a myth. Although they do bury their dead and other dead animals and also remember where.)

Homosexuality (as far as I know) does not create llife. (although some occult groups, subcultures would beg to differ )

Death a nothing that we fear? (Of course there are many stories that claim death to be something else)

The anus a nothing place?

My own conclusion from what I know. Could it be that homosexuality is blamed for death itself? Most of us humans know what creates life sexually. What we are still unsure about is why we die. If early man/woman thought death was/is a direct result of homosexuality, it follows that he/she would try to put an end to homosexuality and become homophobic as a result.

This attitude highlited with the aids epidemic. Gods punishment etc.

(I cant help feeling the scare mongerers have given themselves many a "High five=HIV" with their relevant success.

Would'nt it be one of the greatest irony's of human history if the very thing (homosexuality) turned out to be the key to the city of immortality!

Well theres a thought...