juantonwan Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Is it possible to believe in an intelligent designer and evolution? Hypothetical Question: Say the bible and all other creation texts and stories did not exist. But instead we found some old stone books that told the story of an intelligent designer creating the universe and earth - and through a guided process of evolution, humankind was eventually formed in the creators ultimate vision. If that book existed and was the only book, would everyone believe in an intelligent designer without question?? With us not knowing the origin of life, sex, the universe etc., can one believe in evolution and an intelligent designer (assuming the universe is not infinite)?
iNow Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 People can believe whatever they want, including that there was an intelligent designer AND that it designed the evolutionary algorithm. I just find the designer unnecessary... like a giant wart that doesn't do much but distract people from the actual subject and reality-based description. 2Clm6nlWxzc
juantonwan Posted October 28, 2009 Author Posted October 28, 2009 People can believe whatever they want, including that there was an intelligent designer AND that it designed the evolutionary algorithm. I just find the designer unnecessary... like a giant wart that doesn't do much but distract people from the actual subject and reality-based description. 2Clm6nlWxzc Thanks for the reply. Is the idea of an intelligent designer a potential answer at anytime? People look at the complexity of the cell, DNA, flagellar motor etc. and the creation of the universe, starting with the big bang. And we don't yet really know the origin of life, so is an intelligent designer a possible answer? - I am not talking about the God of the bible or any other creators. But just the idea of an intelligent designer with an evolutionary algorithm. Is this a crazy idea, or could it be possible?
Phi for All Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Let's be sure to make the distinction between Intelligent Design (in caps, to denote the whole concept as it's being promoted) and an intelligent designer (lower case, some power with greater knowledge/power but still bound by physical laws). That distinction made, an intelligent designer is a possibility. We have no way of knowing scientifically since, if It exists, It chooses to remain unobservable. Evolutionary mechanisms aren't concerned with origins, so it really doesn't matter. Intelligent Design, however, is not even remotely possible, since it contradicts known science in many instances. ID only works if you allow for omnipotence, a designer who can transcend Its own laws (which also seems contradictory, no?).
iNow Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Is the idea of an intelligent designer a potential answer at anytime? <...> Is this a crazy idea, or could it be possible? Well, anything is possible. As a person who exists and appreciates the scientific method, I have to concede that many things are possible. It's possible that my girlfriend only stays with me because a little angel with arrows keeps shooting her in the ear. It's possible my dog sleeps because a unicorn farted and it makes him pass out. It's possible that we all live in the Matrix... Sure... It's possible. It's just not probable. It's superfluous. We can explain things perfectly well without a designer... so you have to ask yourself... really... what's the point of adding it at all? I don't think it's crazy per se, but I do think such belief is delusional. Do you believe in the tooth fairy? If not, why not? Now, apply that same logic to a designer. It really could just be chance. 98OTsYfTt-c v8nYTJf62sE
Phi for All Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 With us not knowing the origin of life, sex, the universe etc., can one believe in evolution and an intelligent designer (assuming the universe is not infinite)?Evolution is just the change in allele frequency in a population over time. It has nothing to do with the origin of life or the universe. Is the idea of an intelligent designer a potential answer at anytime?What are you looking for? If I say that it's possible some higher power designed the current physical mechanisms of the universe, then bowed out of the way to let it all play out, will you then use that as a defense for ID? This would be a mistake. If you just want to know if it's possible, well yes, it's possible. It's just not scientifically very *probable*. People look at the complexity of the cell, DNA, flagellar motor etc. and the creation of the universe, starting with the big bang.Why does complexity require a design, and thus a designer? I once saw a license plate by the side of the road that had been run over many times and it looked like a piece of art. It wasn't just flat, it had obviously been hit by front tires, flipped up then nailed by back tires repeatedly. I could see the outline of a face in the wrinkles, and the whole thing looked like a bow-tie designed for the Tin Man from Oz. It was extremely complex, but no one designed it. It had just undergone multiple pressures from multiple tires and weather over time.
Horza2002 Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Well seeing as evolution doesn't explain how life orginated, the question of whether you believe in it or a designer who created life is void. I also think that if you say that a designer essentially set the basics up for evolution to result in us, you might as well bevelive that humans and everything else was desgined as well. As for where life comes from, there is a growing amount of evidence in the area of abiogensis. The four DNA bases have been shown to sponateously form in conditions similar to that of the early Earth, we know micelles form in water (even near boiling) so theres the origin of cells etc
Severian Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 Is it possible to believe in an intelligent designer and evolution? Anyone who voted 'no' is an idiot, since we have plenty of observational evidence that 'yes' is the correct answer. I believe in an intelligent designer and evolution, so I am a counter-example to the claim that it isn't possible to believe both.
bascule Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 Is it possible to believe in an intelligent designer and evolution? I voted yes. It's no different from how people can simultaneously believe in the validity of the four fundamental forces of quantum mechanics and qi/chi, the undetectable life force that has nebulous and multifaceted effects on all living organisms, except under controlled conditions.
Mr Skeptic Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 Is it possible to believe in an intelligent designer and evolution? Yes, and there are many that do. My favorite example is the one iNow stated, that an intelligent designer could have set up this universe as an evolutionary algorithm. However, if that was the case than we can conclude that our intended purpose is to reproduce. Ie, we could cut out "go forth and multiply" and throw away the rest of the Bible. If such a designer had intended for us to have other goals, it would have been built into the fitness function, so that doing so increases reproductive success. Also, a few have suggested that life was seeded on earth by aliens (or by unintelligent life even). In this case, they'd only be responsible for the initial life, and evolution would proceed regardless of what they intended. Hypothetical Question: Say the bible and all other creation texts and stories did not exist. But instead we found some old stone books that told the story of an intelligent designer creating the universe and earth - and through a guided process of evolution, humankind was eventually formed in the creators ultimate vision. If that book existed and was the only book, would everyone believe in an intelligent designer without question?? Definitely: the same sort of people that believe the Bible without question. With us not knowing the origin of life, sex, the universe etc., can one believe in evolution and an intelligent designer (assuming the universe is not infinite)? Actually, it is quite possible to know and believe different things. Statisticians, I think, do that quite a bit.
swansont Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 As Severian has noted, people do believe in both, so the answer is trivially "yes." A poll to figure this out seems pointless — it's the wrong tool. The poll seems like an excuse to introduce a discussion of ID, and that's equally pointless.
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