Is an alpha particle the most electronegative chemical entity possible ?

[dr.syntax]

Is an alpha particle the most electronegative chemical entity possible? Electronegativity is a chemical entity`s affinity for, or power to attract electrons. An Alpha particle is 2 protons and 2 neutrons fused together. It is exactly the same thing as the nucleus of a helium atom.

I think it is. Because it requires 2 electrons to make it an electrically balanced atom, and there is that force that compels atoms to fill their outer electron shells. This is refered to as the octet rule,which in this unique case would be called the doublet rule perhaps. Also this outer electron shell is the first shell,placing the electrons closest to the protons as is possible. What is your take on this. Old hat,everybody already knows that,or not true, or something else. Whatever, ...Dr.Syntax

Edited November 1, 2009 by dr.syntax
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[Mr Skeptic]

How about plutonium with a -94 charge on it?

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Electronegativity is usually used to describe atoms inside molecules, so you can describe how electrons in the bonds will be shared and so on. Fluorine is thus the most electronegative element when bonded. I don't know about electronegativity of free nuclei and such though.

[dr.syntax]

How about plutonium with a -94 charge on it?

 

 

 

REPLY: Hello my good Friend, i was thinking along those same line. Strip off enough electrons of some element and I am not sure what the answer is. There are the different factors to consider. Such as the further away from the nucleus the outer shell exists the less electronegativity. An example would be that Fluorine is more electronegative than Chlorine. And that those elements on the right side of the periodic table , not including the noble gases, are more electronegative than those to the left if in the same horizontal section, which is divided or added to as the outer electron shells are added to. I am not sure what the answer is. Regards, Dr.Syntax ..... P.S. I am looking at Linus Paulings scale. He gives Fluorine a value of 4.0 and Chlorine a value of 3.0 . Which shows how dramatically the values change as shells are added to as you move up to the heavier elements and electron shells are added moving the electrons further and further from those protons in the different nuclei .

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Electronegativity is usually used to describe atoms inside molecules, so you can describe how electrons in the bonds will be shared and so on. Fluorine is thus the most electronegative element when bonded. I don't know about electronegativity of free nuclei and such though.

 

 

REPLY: Yes, I`m looking at the Pauling scale now. But he does not include ions. I`m pretty sure he is the one who first came up with the whole concept of electronegativety and it was part of his: THE NATURE OF THE CHEMICAL BOND ,which won him one of his two NOBEL prizes. I appreciate your interest. ...Dr.Syntax

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How about plutonium with a -94 charge on it?

 

If I`m not mistaken that -94 charge would indicate an excess of 94 electrons and that would make it`s electronegatity value exceptionally low not high. Regards, Dr.Syntax

Edited November 1, 2009 by dr.syntax
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[UC]

How about plutonium with a -94 charge on it?

 

wouldn't a naked [ce] ^{62}Ni [/ce] nucleus do better? Or would increasing the atomic number merely start to give diminishing returns?

[dr.syntax]

wouldn't a naked [ce] ^{62}Ni [/ce] nucleus do better? Or would increasing the atomic number merely start to give diminishing returns?

 

 

REPLY: This is the sort of question that may provide an answer. I have the feeling some elements out there may very well be able to exist as more electronegative ions than He++. Let me ask you,do you know that if a naked Ni can exist ? I don`t think it can. There are factors that limit the number electrons that can be stripped from an atom. I always thought only the outer layer or shell could be stripped away so to speak. I may very well be wrong about that. I don`t know ,do you ? From all I have been able to find out : only outer shell electrons can be stripped from atoms. Though under extreme conditions such as those that exist in stars for instance I wouldn`t know if this held true. ...Dr.Syntax

Edited November 1, 2009 by dr.syntax
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[DrP]

In a plasma, you have the situation where all the electrons have been stripped from the atom.

[Mr Skeptic]

If I`m not mistaken that -94 charge would indicate an excess of 94 electrons and that would make it`s electronegatity value exceptionally low not high. Regards, Dr.Syntax

 

Right, I meant a +94 charge. I doubt it could even hold a -94 charge.

[insane_alien]

no, a -94 charge would be impossible as the electrons would experience a repulsive force capable of ejecting them.

 

a +94 charge is perfectly feasible as we have the good old strong nuclear force to counteract the electrostatic repulsion.

[dr.syntax]

no, a -94 charge would be impossible as the electrons would experience a repulsive force capable of ejecting them.

 

a +94 charge is perfectly feasible as we have the good old strong nuclear force to counteract the electrostatic repulsion.

 

REPLY: Been waiting for you to check in on this one. So,under extreme conditions all electrons are stripped away. Let me ask you this. Are we talking about the sort of temperatures that exist in the sun as a opposed to suppose a super nova event ? Also is a helium ++ be the most electronegative chemical entity that occurs naturally here on Earth ? Like what happens during a lightening strike ? Would that strip all the electrons from oxygen and nitrogen ? ...Dr.Syntax

[Riogho]

The definition of electronegativity is the atom's ability to attract electrons in a bond. A +94 Plutionium atom is unable to bond with anything. As the Cap'n said, you have to be inside a molecule, and electronegativity consequently is referring to it's ability to attract valence electrons, as those are the only electrons used in a chemical bond.

[insane_alien]

REPLY: Been waiting for you to check in on this one. So,under extreme conditions all electrons are stripped away. Let me ask you this. Are we talking about the sort of temperatures that exist in the sun as a opposed to suppose a super nova event ? Also is a helium ++ be the most electronegative chemical entity that occurs naturally here on Earth ? Like what happens during a lightening strike ? Would that strip all the electrons from oxygen and nitrogen ? ...Dr.Syntax

 

not really. you get cosmic radiation which can be iron nuclei. lightning won't really cause too many high ions. you might get some +3's and +4's but i seriously doubt anything more than that.

 

anyway, the point is moot as electronegativity really only applies to neutral atomic/molecular species.

Edited November 1, 2009 by insane_alien

[dr.syntax]

The definition of electronegativity is the atom's ability to attract electrons in a bond. A +94 Plutionium atom is unable to bond with anything. As the Cap'n said, you have to be inside a molecule, and electronegativity consequently is referring to it's ability to attract valence electrons, as those are the only electrons used in a chemical bond.

 

REPLY: I did`t pay close enough attention to Cap`n and I apologize to him for not doing so. This is all new to me so I`m listening to the rest of you and may ask a question but can see I don`t have any answers. ....Dr.Syntax

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Electronegativity is usually used to describe atoms inside molecules, so you can describe how electrons in the bonds will be shared and so on. Fluorine is thus the most electronegative element when bonded. I don't know about electronegativity of free nuclei and such though.

 

REPLY: I appologize for not paying closer attention. You WERE DEFINING ELECTRONEGATITY which of course would not include He++ and I was not listening. My apologies sir, I stand corrected, aye,aye Cap`n. ...Dr.Syntax

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not really. you get cosmic radiation which can be iron nuclei. lightning won't really cause too many high ions. you might get some +3's and +4's but i seriously doubt anything more than that.

 

anyway, the point is moot as electronegativity really only applies to neutral atomic/molecular species.

 

REPLY: Well, I don`t know what to say. Though I will point out that He++,alpha particles do occur naturally here on Earth and do interact with organisms as does radon gas which also occurs naturally. But apparently my using the term electronegativity to He++ is an inappropriate use of the word. I guess plasma physics is the logical ,proper subject to discuss such issues in. Thanks to all you guys for your input. I hope I did`t offend anyone too much. I am a very confused person generally speaking, not just in this forum. ...Dr.Syntax

Edited November 1, 2009 by dr.syntax
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[Sorcerer]

lol