Why does mankind crave violence so much?

[jackson33]

Doc; I have looked at his work, was a big thing years ago, to the point I feel it's basically mainstream psychology, with the twist of trying to incorporate the unprovable. Said another way, we can determine with some accuracy the reasons for problems, if the person remembers, maybe recreate those conditions as a form of therapy, but cannot get there from things a person can't possibly remember.

 

If you insert the word 'Emotional' ahead of Pain, in the explanation for PRIMAL THERAPY, I believe it fits very well into modern day treatments. If you fear something, you do that activity, in order to overcome that fear, and so on.....In this wiki article, pain is explained as emotional. However results have not been satisfactory or provable and the theory has taken a back seat, in the psychological community.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primal_therapy

 

War

City riots

Video games

television

martial arts

 

Since the beginning of recorded history (and maybe before that; we don't know), mankind has craved violence. Television and video games show that violence doesn't need a motive, that people are naturally motivated to commit, or spectate, acts of violence, not out of the dreams of power, money, or territory, but simply by nature of the violence itself.[/Quote]

 

dstebbins; I believe your mixing instinct and entertainment, into one category, then I'd say Territorial traits (exist in all animals), is a diminishing trait in Humans, domesticated animals, as fear is diminished. What is territory then, to one person and the next may be different. For instance, if I came home, my wife in bed with another person, my reaction 'was passive' twice, but the next person might be aggressive. Entertainment, is itself a diversion from reality which normally does NOT develop into real life actions. To complicate this; That trait of all animals is could be established from environmental conditions, as the Doc is suggesting, from childhood on through a persons character establishment years.

 

While history IS full of mans inhumanity toward mankind, I don't think it would be fare judge all (passive aggressive), in any time frame or to assume it was anything close to a majority.

[dr.syntax]

I'm responding here, but Request Mod move these posts to their own thread.

 

 

The Five Great Myths of Popular Psychology

Primal therapy instructs clients to discharge their anger associated with painful emotions experienced in infancy, during birth, and even in utero. To do so, clients must yell, shout obscenities, and kick and hit objects (Singer & Lalich, 1996).

 

<...>

 

However, a large body of psychological research demonstrates that expressing anger openly is rarely psychologically helpful in the long-run, although it may make people feel slightly better in the short run. Indeed, in most cases, expressing anger actually results in more, not less, long-term anger, raising serious questions concerning the catharsis hypothesis (Lohr, Olatunji, Baumeister, & Bushman, 2006). In a variety of laboratory studies, participants who engage in verbal, written, or physical anger against an aggressor (for example, in a simulated game involving electric shocks) have been found to experience more hostility than participants who did not (Bushman, 2002; Lewis & Bucher, 1992; Warren & Kurlycheck, 1981).

 

 

Either way, this site takes care of most of the faults:

http://debunkingprimaltherapy.com/

 

REPLY: YOU WON`T DEBATE ME,but choose to link to a bunch of lying crap filled websites written by Janov haters who will not give their names and you consider them to be some sort of authority. I am quoting YOU : Appeals to authority prove nothing or something very close to that in a previous response to me . So it is fine if you do it and a bunch of crap when I do it. Is that the way you see things in this World ? Rules and such apply when they suit your purpose but those very same rules and principals have no meaning when they do not serve your purpose. Well I do not buy into that insane logic for one instant. You can not just run this forum in such an unfair way. What sort of a forum would that be ? By the way,the same sort of authority figures argued and more against such Greats as Galileo, and Darwin. So called authorities have always been appealed to when NEW AND POWERFUL NEW CONCEPTS are presented to the World. Arthur Janov is just such a man. His revolutionary,scientifically based ideas are in fact being embraced by many others such as Dr.Aletha Solter who has created quite a following of her own. You will not find it so easy to trash her name, and yet she adheres to all the concepts Janov originated and her work is based on his prior findings. Janov`s only short coming was his lack of political skill in presenting his revolutionary concepts.To view Janov`s work go to http:http://www.primaltherapy.com and see for yourselves what he has to say. LET THE MAN SPEAK FOR HIMSELF. What is wrong with that ? ...Dr.Syntax

Edited November 2, 2009 by dr.syntax

[A Tripolation]

Dr. Syntax, it seems to me that iNow has linked to peer-reviewed articles, which is considered a valid way to oppose an argument. It's not really Appeal to Authority, which would be iNow throwing out one Dr.'s name and saying "Since he doesn't agree with it, it's wrong, and he's right, because he's a doctor and he must know exactly what he's talking about."

 

Now, what I know about psychology is probably equivalent to that of a small gerbil's, but using my common sense, I do not think Primal Therapy would work.

Why would I want to scream about stuff that makes me mad? It seems that that would just heighten my propensity to just scream whenever something makes me mad, instead of me addressing what is exactly making me mad, and then seeing if I am in the wrong, or if I could help "enlighten" the idiot that is making me mad.

 

That's how I feel anyways.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

I believe this thread is about why mankind craves violence so much. Can we talk about that, please?

[dr.syntax]

Dr. Syntax, it seems to me that iNow has linked to peer-reviewed articles, which is considered a valid way to oppose an argument. It's not really Appeal to Authority, which would be iNow throwing out one Dr.'s name and saying "Since he doesn't agree with it, it's wrong, and he's right, because he's a doctor and he must know exactly what he's talking about."

 

Now, what I know about psychology is probably equivalent to that of a small gerbil's, but using my common sense, I do not think Primal Therapy would work.

Why would I want to scream about stuff that makes me mad? It seems that that would just heighten my propensity to just scream whenever something makes me mad, instead of me addressing what is exactly making me mad, and then seeing if I am in the wrong, or if I could help "enlighten" the idiot that is making me mad.

 

That's how I feel anyways.

 

 

REPLY: Maybe you should at least take a few minutes of your time to read at least the basic premise of what primal therapy is before you start posting opinions based on second hand opinions written by Janov haters. You can do so by going to : [ http://www.primaltherapy.com ]. Allow the man to speak for himself before judging him and his work. He presents a brief overview of primal therapy and provides links for any questions you may have about primal therapy.

Any notion that PT is a bunch of mindless screaming is a bunch of lying nonsense put out on the web by Janov haters or so called authority figures who`s own concepts of psychology are directly challenged by Janov. The reason people benifit from accessing suppressed feelings is that those feeling are there exerting harmful entities such as cortisol into your body. By going through the primal process you resolve these repressed feelings and they exist as nothing more than a memory. No longer needing to be suppressed because you have resolved the feeling by allowing yourself to express what for whatever reason you forced yourself not to feel. It can be many things that happened when you were an infant. Not being breast fed and in very close contact to your mother or someone else for extended and repeated lengthy periods of time can and does make a developing infant neurotic. Think about monkeys for instance. They are in constant physical contact with their mother or one of her sisters or some other female in the group CONSTANTLY. They are never left alone. They are in constant physical contact as I just described in the early year or two of their lives. What makes us humans so different from them. Watch a mother dog with her new born puppies. She spends almost all of her time lying there nursing and caring for them in the early weeks of their lives. At least read what Janov has to say for himself before offering up opinions of his work based on the opinions people who are threatened by what he has to say in the same way many are threatened by what Darwin has to say.It strikes at the core of their different belief systems. Ones they were forced to create themselves as a means of suppressing feelings they for varying reasons could not allow themselves to feel. Many infants soon enough realize that crying out as they instinctively do, for their mothers,does not get them the loving attention they so desperately need almost constantly in the first 2 years or so. I would think a human infants needs for such attention is at least as much as that of a chimpanzee`s Do you think that a human child is smarter and therefore it`s needs are therefore less. I will say I think it is exactly the opposite. There were studies done at orphanages where the infants were bottle fed and diapers changed and such, but other than that, they received no touching. ALL 100% OF THESE INFANTS DIED !! That is how vitally important this need to be in touch with a loving or caring mother is. ...Dr.Syntax

Edited November 2, 2009 by dr.syntax

[JillSwift]

REPLY: Maybe you should at least take a few minutes of your time to read at least the basic premise of what primal therapy is before you start posting opinions based on second hand opinions written by Janov haters. You can do so by going to : [ http://www.primaltherapy.com ]. Allow the man to speak for himself before judging him and his work. He presents a brief overview of primal therapy and provides links for any questions you may have about primal therapy.

Any notion that PT is a bunch of mindless screaming is a bunch of lying nonsense put out on the web by Janov haters or so called authority figures who`s own concepts of psychology are directly challenged by Janov. The reason people benifit from accessing suppressed feelings is that those feeling are there exerting harmful entities such as cortisol into your body. By going through the primal process you resolve these repressed feelings and they exist as nothing more than a memory. No longer needing to be suppressed because you have resolved the feeling by allowing yourself to express what for whatever reason you forced yourself not to feel. It can be many things that happened when you were an infant. Not being breast fed and in very close contact to your mother or someone else for extended and repeated lengthy periods of time can and does make a developing infant neurotic. Think about monkeys for instance. They are in constant physical contact with their mother or one of her sisters or some other female in the group CONSTANTLY. They are never left alone. They are in constant physical contact as I just described in the early year or two of their lives. What makes us humans so different from them. Watch a mother dog with her new born puppies. She spends almost all of her time lying there nursing and caring for them in the early weeks of their lives. At least read what Janov has to say for himself before offering up opinions of his work based on people who are threatened by what he has to say in the same way many are threatened by what Darwin has to say. ...Dr.Syntax

This is ad hominem. Essentially "They are wrong because they dislike Janov", as opposed to "They are wrong because <evidence>".

 

It's also an argument of "because part X is correct, all parts are correct".

 

There is evidence contrary to "primal therapy". There is a lack of evidence in favor of "primal therapy". Therefore, primal therapy is bollocks.

[Sayonara]

I believe this thread is about why mankind craves violence so much. Can we talk about that, please?

 

Last warning.

[greenprogrammin]

Personally I can say that it is not about adrenaline.

 

I become violent for many reasons (too many)...

 

Sometimes it is hate.

Sometimes it is because of frustration.

Sometimes it is because of current pain levels.

 

Most of the time it is because of my CRAVING OF POWER.

 

I pride myself on the power I can harness.

 

Fortunately, I made it through adolesence into adulthood without too many problems.

 

Everyday is a struggle to GIVE UP CONTROL of the things around me.

 

It has a lot to do with control.

 

I hope this helps... lol

Peace!!! hahaha

 

BTW... Why do you ask???

[toastywombel]

I will re-state what I said earlier because it seems this thread has gone quite off-topic.

 

Nature is often violent, humanity is a by-product of nature, therefore humanity is often violent.

[dr.syntax]

mistake

Edited November 3, 2009 by dr.syntax
mistake

[greenprogrammin]

wow...

I think you took it the wrong way..

 

I was trying to explain where I think violence comes from.

 

I think it is emotional intelligence.

 

It's cognitive.

 

Look up the wikipedia entry for emotional intelligence.

 

I was primarily trying to paint a picture of the nature of what I think emotional intelligence is.

 

"The earliest roots of emotional intelligence can be traced to Darwin’s work on the importance of emotional expression for survival and second adaptation". Wikipedia.

 

Alpha-Male = Most Violent = Most Successful = Most Powerful = God Complex

 

Custom equation -----^

 

:-D

 

ToastyWombel: Do you understand my point???

_____________

 

Ref:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_intelligence

Edited November 3, 2009 by greenprogrammin

[dr.syntax]

mistake made sorry

Edited November 3, 2009 by dr.syntax
misunderstanding

[toastywombel]

REPLY: With the sort of anger you expressed in this posting I agree that you have been fortunate so far in that you have made it through adolescence into adulthood without too many problems. The fact that you have suggests to me you have enough self control to have avoided landing in some prison somewhere. I could be wrong about this. If you are not in prison you have to find some way to cope with these feelings you carry about inside you so as not to land there.

You need some psychiatric help before you act out this anger in such a way as to land you in prison. I don`t even know what country you live in. If you are fortunate enough to live in a country that provides socialized medical care you should go there and ask for the help you need.

If you live in the USA, many communities have social services types of organizations that can find some help for you. And of course if you have the money yourself or parents that are willing to pay for some professional help you should get some. You need some help. You are far from being alone in this regard. There are medications available that can provide some relief.

The prisons are filled with angry young men. Do NOT become one of them. I, myself, avoid bars or clubs for just that reason.. From the little you have said I do feel you care enough about yourself and other people that you do not want to do anything to harm others per se, for no good reason.

Yet you live with this pent up anger. One of the things that helps me get through life is that I allow myself to cry when I feel like it and it is safe to do so. At home or in my car I will just find a parking lot and just let myself find an out of the way place to park and cry my heart out. You have to be careful not to draw attention to your self.

I don`t know what else to tell you.If you can find the means to find a good therapist and get some help do so. Do not act out this anger on others.Sooner or later it will get you in trouble. I hope someone else in the forum here can give some helpful advise.

I am sure there are forums devoted to helping people such as you. In my opinion, this forum is not a good one for people needing the sort of help you need. Sincerely, ...Dr.Syntax

 

I believe I have been very nice to you Dr. Syntax, but in all reality what the heck did that rant have to do with anything about the original post, it was very off topic and seemed very "preachy" to me.

[dr.syntax]

I believe I have been very nice to you Dr. Syntax, but in all reality what the heck did that rant have to do with anything about the original post, it was very off topic and seemed very "preachy" to me.

 

THIS WAS IN RESPONSE TO A YOUNG MAN WHO SEEMED VERY TROUBLED. I don`t think it was meant for you. It had some elses name. Please don`t be mad. I don`t how it happened. I really don`t. I got an incoming message and responded to that and went back to this . It``s a screw up some where and I`ll try and erase it. ..your friend, Dr.Syntax

---

Merged post follows:

Consecutive posts merged

I believe I have been very nice to you Dr. Syntax, but in all reality what the heck did that rant have to do with anything about the original post, it was very off topic and seemed very "preachy" to me.

 

This is a mistake, It was not a reply to you. I don`t know how it got posted here, i really don`t. Sorry, it was not in reply to anything you said. Now I have erased it. You posted it as a quote by me . To erase that you have to go edit and just hold down the backspace button until it is all gone then just type in mistake or something and press save,

[toastywombel]

I understand you were not responding to me syntax, I still think your post was a little patronizing.

 

And greenprogrammin I did understand your point and I enjoyed it. I think it builds well on top of my point.

[dr.syntax]

I understand you were not responding to me syntax, I still think your post was a little patronizing.

 

And greenprogrammin I did understand your point and I enjoyed it. I think it builds well on top of my point.

 

 

REPLY: Thank goodness I got that straightened out. Your Friend, ...Dr.Syntax

[tar]

Adrenaline makes us better at affecting the arrangement of our environment. We can move bigger rocks, chase down fast prey, fight more effectively, and of course get our bodies out of harms way faster.

 

It is in some ways just an amplifier of our "normal" abilities to have effect on the world.

 

We are talking about violence, but in some ways violence is amplified action.

 

Finding a way to get people to not act on the world would be very hard, and very unwise. Finding ways for people to act on the world in only ways beneficial to everybody else around, is what culture and societies, and religions, and philosophies have been successfully trying to accomplish for a very long time.

 

Regards, TAR

[greenprogrammin]

I think you should consider the evolutionary root of alpha male domination within its' own species and in its' environment...

 

I think this will help you understand the nature of violence. This may go as far back as worm neural development and cognition.

 

Maybe as the people prior have noted that adrenaline is a major factor. Maybe an adaption to violence. This is most likely when the first omnivores/ predators evolved.

 

Adrenaline is just a tool to cause the sudden release of sugar into circulation. There may be other functions (I'm not too sure...).

 

Ohhh... and BTW... Sorry Dr. Syntax.... I didn't mean to get you reamed...

hahaha... C-ya

[Tugrul]

I will re-state what I said earlier because it seems this thread has gone quite off-topic.

 

Nature is often violent, humanity is a by-product of nature, therefore humanity is often violent.

 

Humanity is not a by-product but a part of nature you dont call a plant bi-product, same goes for humanity.

 

It is true that humanity is voilent, this is becouse every other being is, what should make humanity different, becouse we have bigger brains? Biger brains lead to more violence. Violence is a part of life our whole existance has been from it, since the rise of first ape we have fought each other for that fruit tree now we fight for more power and money (power is the tree money is the fruit)

 

"When men run out words they reach for their swords"

[liarliarpof]

The evolution of the human brain lags behind the advancement of civilization. Consider obesity. There were no regular sources of food for early hominids. So, when found, they binged. That instinctual response has not entirely disappeared. Perhaps a similar line of reasoning holds for violent behavior as well. Violence was once critical to survival. Perhaps we have simply not yet 'outgrown' it.