So I split my face open on a pier

[Syntho-sis]

And yes, this was an excellent reminder, and I wish I had heeded the warning about not watching the video. I've never seen such...blood everywhere like that.

 

I've seen some pretty intense gore, living on a farm for a portion of my life, but nothing that extreme. That was pretty disturbing.

[bascule]

Well of course it can! That's life. I still don't see your point at all.

 

Is it society's job to fix broken people after they break themselves? Or should this guy, if American doctors have managed to save him, continued paying medical bills his entire life?

[Phi for All]

Is it society's job to fix broken people after they break themselves? Or should this guy, if American doctors have managed to save him, continued paying medical bills his entire life?

I'd say it *can* be society's job, it that's what society chooses. That's my argument for universal health care in a nutshell. It's certainly not a right, but we can choose to cover everyone if we feel we're worth it. We've advanced far enough to make it a reality in many cultures.

 

I actually watched the first part of the video (just the first jumper, I really didn't want to view the trauma). I had a completely different idea of what they were doing when I posted the first time. This didn't seem excessively dangerous, but as has been said, one little slip and it's all over.

 

There's a place I go walking near my home where the sidewalk briefly borders a busy street, and if one weren't paying enough attention or tripped or turned an ankle, you'd be run over before you could roll out of the way. I walk that path several times a week and I know I have to be extra careful, but it could still happen.

[Syntho-sis]

Is it society's job to fix broken people after they break themselves? Or should this guy, if American doctors have managed to save him, continued paying medical bills his entire life?

 

It's not that black and white.

[Dudde]

It's not that black and white.

 

In my frame of mind, I'm in agreement with Bascule - if you're doing something recreational and happen upon a life threatening event, whether it was stupid or just a patch of water on a piece of wood - is it really the rest of society's job to help fix you up?

 

Please elaborate if you disagree

 

We've advanced far enough to make it a reality in many cultures.

 

I also agree with Phi for all, it isn't really our job, but I personally would be happy to pay a few extra percentage points in taxes if anyone else would be spared something like that. I see society as having come far enough to stop being so damned greedy with what we make, most of the time it goes to something useless anyway.

[padren]

In my frame of mind, I'm in agreement with Bascule - if you're doing something recreational and happen upon a life threatening event, whether it was stupid or just a patch of water on a piece of wood - is it really the rest of society's job to help fix you up?

 

Why should it matter? Should you only be compelled to pick up lifeboats from a fishing boat, but not an cruise ship because it's just a bunch of 'recreating' yahoos? I would love to see some statistics on "how much idiots cost the rest of us" in terms of total healthcare/rescue dollars per year, in relation to the federal budget.

I would be willing to bet that the cost is as trivial as the cost of tossing a life preserver to a drowning individual Sure, on a technical level you don't have to and no one would expect you to put yourself in harms way to do it, but isn't it the right thing to do?

 

I have to reiterate regardless of whether the victim should be stuck with bills after the fact or not, I am very much against the denial of initial care regardless of whether they can afford it - you just can't make those sorts of determinations. A known terrorist could show up in an ER with massive injuries and later turn out to be a planted agent. You just can't make those life and death calls on the spot.

 

 

In terms of cost distribution for catastrophic random events I don't personally see a big difference between getting hit with a boulder while hiking and getting diagnosed with cancer, or jumping off a pier. It's fair to debate especially with things like mountain climbing where a climbers have some expectation they may need extraction and should be able to afford it or some sort of insurance.

 

All in all though, I think the sheer fragility of life as demonstrated in this instance only strengthens the reasons why we should jump to help each other - it's a dangerous world and each other is all we got.

[Syntho-sis]

In my frame of mind, I'm in agreement with Bascule - if you're doing something recreational and happen upon a life threatening event, whether it was stupid or just a patch of water on a piece of wood - is it really the rest of society's job to help fix you up?

 

Please elaborate if you disagree

 

padren already has, I agree with what he says.

[JillSwift]

Society exists for people to help one another.

 

• Police
  
• Firefighting
  
• Emergency medicine
  
• Roads
  
• Refuse control
  
• Sewage control
  
• Food production
  
• Water purification
  

These are facets of groups of humans functioning as a society. We can't function strictly as individuals. Each facet is dealt with in different ways; Some are paid for via taxation, others on a per-use basis, some by incorporated enclaves... etc. These basics are none-the-less granted for the good of the whole.

[Syntho-sis]

Society exists for people to help one another.

 

• Police
  
• Firefighting
  
• Emergency medicine
  
• Roads
  
• Refuse control
  
• Sewage control
  
• Food production
  
• Water purification
  

These are facets of groups of humans functioning as a society. We can't function strictly as individuals. Each facet is dealt with in different ways; Some are paid for via taxation, others on a per-use basis, some by incorporated enclaves... etc. These basics are none-the-less granted for the good of the whole.

 

But existence of these facets aren't the only grounds for a society. You can have all of these or none at all, and still have a functioning society. There were 'societies' long before the concept of 'Emergency medicine' came about. Society exists for the mutual benefit of individuals in a human community.

 

I agree with you, I just didn't wanna leave that point unsaid.

 

Cheers,

[JillSwift]

But existence of these facets aren't the only grounds for a society. You can have all of these or none at all, and still have a functioning society. There were 'societies' long before the concept of 'Emergency medicine' came about. Society exists for the mutual benefit of individuals in a human community.

 

I agree with you, I just didn't wanna leave that point unsaid.

 

Cheers,

Yus, fangu.

[Dudde]

aaww my post earlier wasn't posted, guess I forgot to hit submit

 

anywho

 

I really do agree with you guys, and I agree with everything that's been said - Jill and Padren bring some good points up.

 

I may not be familiar enough with our Healthcare system to understand my question anyway. So if that happened in America, and he were transported to a hospital for surgery - that family would still be responsible for medical expenses, am I correct?

 

If this is the case, I don't see that as society saving someone's life - I see that as medical professionals doing what they're paid to do, and billing the patient for services rendered. If my original argument wasn't clear, I was coming from the standpoint that the rest of society would assist in paying medical expenses in this situation, if it were our responsibility.

 

and I restate, I hope we make it our responsibility sometime soon

[Mr Skeptic]

Well, it is unlikely that he would be able to pay, so it really is not that simple. Sure, he can go bankrupt, but that leaves all those doctors unpaid. It would be them doing above and beyond what they are paid to do (though that is required by law here). The bankruptcy system is one way we help people pay (by officially canceling their debt), but we could also pay the doctor on his behalf.

[DJBruce]

I feel that everything with in reason should be done to save him regardless of his economic circumstances or how the injury occurred. However, I do not think that it should be society's duty to help in rebuild his life. It would be society's duty to save him. However, it would not be their duty to pay for the plastic surgery to make his face somewhat normal again.