AI can it be?

[liljohnak]

can there be AI i was thinking about it and the existance of AI in a computer is impossible here is why. first off a computer doesnt have the right switches to preform an AI operation. AI requires a switch that i call the "maybe" switch which means neither yes or no but maybe. the only thing i can think that would preform as a AI oporator is this (the pic) it has a variable which gives it the maybe swiches it needs to make those un presise desisions..... the pic isnt a work of art or anything thats all its depicting is that there is more than one varyable than the yes and no.

am i on to something of is just one of those :lame: ideas in the tabloids?

[blike]

But isn't "maybe" just suspending decision? For example: Am I going to the mall today? Maybe. That just means I havn't decided yet, and I will have to make a decision [yes or no, (1 or 0)] later whether or not to go.

[Adam]

I don't think a form of conciousness can be created with boolean logic of integrated circuits. However it can be designed for specific task such as a military fighting machine where destination and objective are input variables, but not think and decide on it's own.

[Sayonara]

Saying there will never be AI because there is no such thing as any form of 'maybe switch' technology (that we know of) is a bit like saying "there will never be wheeled transport as we have not designed the wheel yet".

 

Once someone dreams it, the existence of a technology becomes inevitable - it's a matter of time rather than feasability.

 

 

I'm not quite sure I get where you're going with the diagram although it is intriguing. Idea summary?

[liljohnak]

the maybe switch i refur to isnt so much does it have to be yes or no but more a drawing on past experiences or related experiences that pretane to the desion on hand.

and about the drawing it is more of a switch that would enable a computer to go very fast by being able to send info to lots of switches at the same time. It could make AI possible im just not sure if it is possible to send info to each switch with light or magnetic charges i dont know enough about that area of study yet.

well thanks for the input.

my friend said that we would be able to achieve AI if we built a large enough computer. he said that 200,000 years of evolutionary coding might take us a while to master inorder to make a code that can match it.

[Sayonara]

I suspect that if we haven't done it in 200,000 years we never will.

 

It won't take anyway near that long.

[mister_me]

yeah

[Radical Edward]

Originally posted by liljohnak

AI requires a switch that i call the "maybe" switch which means neither yes or no but maybe.

 

neurons don't have this switch, they either fire or don't fire - so in essence they are boolean and the processing (at the synapses or internally) gives a boolean, but not nescessarily linear result.....

 

I feel that your view of the complexities of intelligence are somewhat limited in this respect.. I might suggest reading 'The Emperor's New Mind' by Roger Penrose..... damn good read.

[Radical Edward]

<faf broke the internet>

[Giles]

Originally posted by Radical Edward

I might suggest reading 'The Emperor's New Mind' by Roger Penrose..... damn good read.

He's right you know. hard going for us non-physics people tho.

[fafalone]

In the future when computers perform rapid parallel operations on trillions of bytes controlled by trillions of other bytes, AI will be possible. When molecular simulations are perfected, all we have to do is add some DNA and all the other needed mocules, and life itself will be simulated. Granted our computing technologies and understandings of molecular interactions are still in their infancy, but this is not an impossible task looking forward even a few decades.

[tcsilver]

[notice in at 12:00am: "message has been unbuffered"][X7][X4][Y7]

 

Reply by DosBoxer McBee to a 3rd party individuals questions " Lucent dream cases, why is it that alpha wave/REM dreams seem as if they require too much 3d rotational and polygon-morph cross signal processing for them to originate from the human mind?"

 

McBee[o] : "As new studies indicate that the Cerebral Cortex is no longer suspected to be able to directly support enough bio-electrical throughput to produce lucent dreams on it's own it's more and more suspected that the Digital World B. Incursive networked computing based reality is a realistic possibility. Consider this simple question: Seeing as how we now know it to be possibly to program a human quality cognitive model to a high level of self-awareness/sentience within the next several generations or so of common level super-computing(even more feasibly so than high efficiently circulatory system nano-bots, with the absence of human installed nanometer bio-electrical conductivity wires. How soon will these particle mesh retentivity software simulations be available ? The true is that do to nature of recent and newly prove particle behavioral law. It is quite likely that only 99% all of the current rules are actually active at any given time, signaling the notice that our own universe may in fact be inside of a COMPUTRE SIMULATION.. as amazing as that may seem.. the one law that is discovered by the near unification of physics here is that there seems to in fact be intelligent control as expected, but so scientifically so that it's akin to what someone could have developed on a neural control interface inabled network of super computers...':)'.. given in account religion I'll close the conversation here but consider this simple modularity structure component/[] server.universe.galaxy.world.religions[x].sciences[x].you This is one way to NOT evermore understand any of the above statements and questions or any of the hawkins/'vinesworth' material extensions for this reason... at not understanding scieince over religion the science and thus you stucture is evermore colapsable, a more common modern day personal structure is as follows.

 

server.universe->galaxy->world->sciences[x]->religions[x]->you_.this->do();

though this takes into a the finite nature of a single universe within a server theory. However as you can see where there is stress testing activity on a server. There is more likely to be ever more dynamic behavior in an individual.

And yes. In response to your pm questions. it is better to study this more simplistic model first before delving into stranger ideas about the unification of religion . Consider the comical sci-fi uniformity of the grey humanoid aliens..and no do not quote me on that I'm moreso into basic energtic dynamics.

 

[so the question is not how soon will they exist but when will we have access to them HERE] "

 

 

email me at thomascannady@comacst.net if you wish.. but err...no non Graphical User Interface questions please.. i need more contracts under my belt

 

-Tommy III out

[tcsilver]

Good point of view One thing about AI is that it is largely dependent on feature extraction which as been processed through a long series of highly expensive computations which rely on in cursively reprocessed and redundantly rearranged timer sets. In fact AI, Artificial intelligence is largely a mater of what is required, by immersion to invoke suspension of disbelieve in the majority of on lookers Often times the code for it is even quick to build and sloppy enough to be dismissed. Also Artificial AI has a realm of specific scope in that it's always measurable by the completion of goals required by the specific software contract. It can be a touchy issue I'm told :/ actual intelligence(the other kind of ai.. goes hand in hand with many id que based subprocesses that can be identified and quantified as artificial. In this way the certain components of the human mind are very and readily easy to quantify. Please consider this simple ASCII reprocessing information of a reprocess filtration system Actual human AI is theoretically calculable by reprocessing environmental feature extraction of visual, sonic, olfactory & on-touch senses as combined with internal biofeedback & the id-ego-super ego connection. A simple cognitive model is as followed given a complete mental framework structure : Mind.ego = ind.id_que.arb.do(Mind.input,rand_task_NULL); What goes on the id que is generally associated with self as is described by the tier of personal NEEDs. the ego often handles the wants and the interpretation, projection and acquisition of desirable outcomes. Furthermore adaptive stress reserves are required in order to further expand the neural network in most cases. The logical ego negates a large portion of emotional stimuli so as to not invoke a problematic issue with the superego . Also think about the aspects of task management. Path-finding is an integral part of early focus based ego management. Later on in live one tends to do these things naturally through the ever expanding id.. in a COMPUTER sim the id can be much like a simple and concise pointer to a stream of things to do within the current location with direct respect to the tasks of the other individual AI operated units/ NPCs(if you will) in the simulation.. Good night. For equations please consult 0x555555

 

-Hue-Man-Race Foundation for learning

[tcsilver]

The maybe switch can only really be simulated by taking into account many energetic models in a concise and unified format. It sometimes takes more than a gyroscopic model to build a human-like understanding for a given topic. Actual gravity based environment variables must come into play. Also bio-electrical neuron impulses must be taken into account. Consider this. The pooling of warmth in certain areas of the brain that stimulate warm areas which in turn stimulates the expansion of redundantly networked neural circuits.. speaking of which.. I should end this post. I'm getting cold case of the zig-zaggers

 

As a jesting note on incursively operating cognitive-model self awareness

"Alert, Alert, the node word 'neuron' in the neural psychology memory block".. as a fair warning and fitting as it is here is another statement incase you get to worry about it "shcizoeffectives[sp!] don't get cancer".. not the spelling fault in my output on that one word(buffer overrun)

 

EOF

[GutZ]

But isn't "maybe" just suspending decision? For example: Am I going to the mall today? Maybe. That just means I havn't decided yet, and I will have to make a decision [yes or no, (1 or 0)] later whether or not to go.

 

Yeah

 

If situation = 0

Then "blah"

add reminder

 

If situation = 1

Go to mall

 

Criteria for situation:

Time

Mood

etc

etc

 

remember too you will program it for self learning, recalling will be a big part of it.

 

I think AI is difficult to see because of the sheer amount of data involves...Think about every input from womb to end of death for a human...

 

I think AI is being held back purely from a technological standpoint.

[bascule]

He's right you know. hard going for us non-physics people tho.

 

Actually, Penrose is wrong

 

I'm amazed quantum mind/monism-type thinking has been able to make such major inroads into the scientific and mathematical world.

 

Penrose alleges that consciousness is hypercomputational with quantum oracles doing all the "real" thinking. He is thus alleging that neurons exhibit some sort of quantum mechanical behavior. But his ultimate goal is to send his own personal brand of monism, which he bases upon Godel's Incompleteness Theorem.

 

As the paper I linked above (click wrong) demonstrates, Penrose is misapplying Godel's Incompleteness Theorem. Furthermore, his attempts at postulating quantum mechanical behavior in neurons (namely in the behavior of microtubules) have been discreded by both quantum physicists and neurobiologists.

 

I won't go any farther into the virtues of materialsm vs. monism, only that Penrose's arguments have been thoroughly debunked by the scientific community. Monism is a philosophical premise and if you want to see it defended well, read Kant. Penrose's attempts to put monism on a scientific foundation have all been failures.

 

That said, I still think he is a brilliant physicist and that the Road to Reality is an excellent book.