TR-3B reduces mass ?

[elas]

The premise that if it can't be debunked it must be legit is flawed.

 

The relevant science would be contained in the statement "The MFD generates a magnetic vortex field, which disrupts or neutralizes the effects of gravity on mass within proximity, by 89 percent..."

 

What is required is a detailed explanation of how this purported effect occurs — this is the linchpin of the whole argument, and there is absolutely no discussion of physics here! Almost all the rest is window dressing. The claim of mass reduction, especially of the large order claimed, is inconsistent with other physics concepts and with known gravitational effects being very weak. This does not pass the sniff test.

 

This sounds like a development of a concept demonstrated on ‘Tomorrow’s World’ a BBCTV general science programme back in the 1950/60s by a University of Cambridge professor who was ostracized for his theory which ran contrary to all acceptable views.

 

The TV demonstration consisted of a see-saw with a weight on one end and a child standing at the other. The child was unable to press her end down. Next a device with a spinning disc was placed on the weight; the child was now able to push down her end of the see-saw using only one finger.

Various other experiments were conducted, but the above was the only one to be repeated on TV as far as I can remember.

 

The explanation is (in my opinion) quite simple. A high speed spinning disc causes the gravitons within the influence of the disc, to separate from the local field and established a separate G field that embraces the weight; they (device and weight) are then largely independent of the local G field.

 

To the best of my memory, of all the devices used in follow on experiments by other scientists; the spinning disc was the only one that was not open to question, or proven to be false. The experiments were always referred to as G force experiments, I do not recall that electromagnetic force was ever mentioned.

 

Although no one would speak to him, or publish his papers; the professor stayed at his post until retirement. I think he died in the 90's. I cannot recall his name (something like Braithwaite or Laithwaite?) But he did get an obituary in the national newspapers.

 

The last time I tried to look him up on the web, I found he still has a large band of followers, but I have not time to repeat that search today.

Edited November 21, 2009 by elas

[insane_alien]

Moontan, at that pressure and temperature the mercury would be solid. but still FAR too hot to be super conductive. there aren't many substances that ar super conductive ast such high temperatures.

[swansont]

Such an experiment would seem easy to replicate and confirm. There should be journal articles describing the experiments and the theory behind it. The reason video is often not considered good evidence is that it's easy to fake things.

[John Phoenix]

The premise that if it can't be debunked it must be legit is flawed.

 

The relevant science would be contained in the statement "The MFD generates a magnetic vortex field, which disrupts or neutralizes the effects of gravity on mass within proximity, by 89 percent..."

 

What is required is a detailed explanation of how this purported effect occurs — this is the linchpin of the whole argument, and there is absolutely no discussion of physics here! Almost all the rest is window dressing. The claim of mass reduction, especially of the large order claimed, is inconsistent with other physics concepts and with known gravitational effects being very weak. This does not pass the sniff test.

 

Thus you keep saying.. this guy John Kooiman hinges his findings based on Dr. Forwards work. Well, since I cant find public domain posting of that work I guess we will never know since yo guys don't have any "physics" to look at. I don't know what could be in Forwards work to make John Kooiman think he understands the concept.

[npts2020]

Thus you keep saying.. this guy John Kooiman hinges his findings based on Dr. Forwards work. Well, since I cant find public domain posting of that work I guess we will never know since yo guys don't have any "physics" to look at. I don't know what could be in Forwards work to make John Kooiman think he understands the concept.

 

There is no physics to look at. So far there has been at least half a dozen points made about why such a craft is impossible (or at best highly unlikely) and none about why it will work. If even one of the unaddressed points can be shown to be in error, I would bet the person who can show that would be up for a Nobel Prize.

[swansont]

Thus you keep saying.. this guy John Kooiman hinges his findings based on Dr. Forwards work. Well, since I cant find public domain posting of that work I guess we will never know since yo guys don't have any "physics" to look at. I don't know what could be in Forwards work to make John Kooiman think he understands the concept.

 

There are plenty of examples here on SFN of people who claim they understand physics, and post conjectures that prove that they do not. It much more likely that the explanation is with Kooiman overstating his understanding than with Forward explaining some aspect of relativity that has escaped everyone else's notice.

[elas]

Such an experiment would seem easy to replicate and confirm. There should be journal articles describing the experiments and the theory behind it. The reason video is often not considered good evidence is that it's easy to fake things.

 

I would agree and I have often wondered why it was pushed aside. The Tomorrow's World team always insisted on the correct experimental conditions and were quick to reveal any attempt at faking; this was the BBC at its educational best in the days when it was rightly considered a world leader, sadly it is no longer considered so, but you have to be in my age group to appreciate the difference. At least two other experiments first shown on Tomorrow's World are now on the market, but there are probably others. Both took years to re-appear. (I moved abroad and missed most of the programs).

 

There are no journal articles, the establishment simple refused to accept his work, but on the other hand neither could they find any reason to remove him from office, so he stayed there in splendid isolation.

[Moontanman]

Moontan, at that pressure and temperature the mercury would be solid. but still FAR too hot to be super conductive. there aren't many substances that ar super conductive ast such high temperatures.

 

Well that was my point, I knew it couldn't be a gas or a plasma much less superconductive. This sounds vaguely like some reports of so called space craft described in Veldic myth supposedly powered by rotating vats of liquid mercury. These myths have about as much to support them as the OP

 

 

http://www.hallofthegods.org/2009/03/ancient-spacecraft-on-moon.html

 

A basic design for an antigravity engine has been detailed in a number of ancient Indian texts. The texts speak of mercury as being the critical component in the antigravity engine.

[insane_alien]

well the ancient cultures did believe mercury had magical properties. they also believed certain animals had magical properties as well. you don't see the egyptians building antigravity devices out of cats or the hindus(? might be wrong on this one, apologies if i am, could be sikhs perhaps?) building antigravity devices out of cows.

 

just because some ancient civilizations believe it's true doesn't mean its actually true. aafter all we do know more than them however attractive it is to think of a lost civilization that was far more advanced than us. heck, 99% of the civilizations people claim have invented antigravity hadn't even discovered the joys of indoor toilets or that eating poison was bad for you.

[Moontanman]

well the ancient cultures did believe mercury had magical properties. they also believed certain animals had magical properties as well. you don't see the egyptians building antigravity devices out of cats or the hindus(? might be wrong on this one, apologies if i am, could be sikhs perhaps?) building antigravity devices out of cows.

 

just because some ancient civilizations believe it's true doesn't mean its actually true. aafter all we do know more than them however attractive it is to think of a lost civilization that was far more advanced than us. heck, 99% of the civilizations people claim have invented antigravity hadn't even discovered the joys of indoor toilets or that eating poison was bad for you.

 

I am sorry insane_alien, I didn't mean to suggest there was anything to the myths. I was suggesting that the OP was probably connected with the writings that made those claims. Much of this anti-gravity silliness is connected with some writings that had to do with Atlantis and vimanas and all sorts of made up silliness that really were not honest translations of the myths..

 

At one time, many many many years ago I read all I could about those writings that claimed a high tech civilization some time about 12 to 15 thousand years ago. I found out that most of the information was at best exaggerations of many times copied and translated myths that had no evidence of being anywhere near that old. The best than can be said of most of the translations is that they were imaginary. I am quite sure many were just damn lies made to sell books to gullible you men like me

[insane_alien]

oh i know you weren't suggesting that. i was just saying it for the benefit of the people who do believe in this crap who may be reading the thread.

[JohnB]

Wasted effort IA.

 

There are too many that believe that the Bermuda Triangle is the result of an Atlantean death ray and at the same time believe Platos account of Atlantis.

 

When I ask them how a civ with flying saucers and death rays gets the snot beaten out of them by the greeks with bronze swords and chariots, they give me funny looks.

[insane_alien]

yes, i know its wasted effort, but i do enjoy the odd futile task now and again. its relaxing.

[npts2020]

yes, i know its wasted effort, but i do enjoy the odd futile task now and again. its relaxing.

 

Tilting at the occasional windmill can be fun and good exercise.

[JohnB]

And "interesting" when you get your lance caught in the blade.

[Tesla the Electron Emperor]

To be fair John wasn't saying it would be anti gravity though, apparently this "non fictional" machine makes a magnetic field that it can use to counteract earths magnetic field. That would be some pretty cool technology but I think it'll be a bit more complicated then some mercury plasma spinning around. Maybe a better question would be, "Is it possible to and what would it take to counteract the earths magnetic field to levitate an object against the pull of gravity?" instead of the rather more creationist style approach saying "well here's a thing I'm not really sure if it exists but I've heard from a source that it's said to work this way, prove it to me." that many smart people who mean well tend to slip into.

[Science_Guy]

To be fair John wasn't saying it would be anti gravity though, apparently this "non fictional" machine makes a magnetic field that it can use to counteract earths magnetic field. That would be some pretty cool technology but I think it'll be a bit more complicated then some mercury plasma spinning around. Maybe a better question would be, "Is it possible to and what would it take to counteract the earths magnetic field to levitate an object against the pull of gravity?" instead of the rather more creationist style approach saying "well here's a thing I'm not really sure if it exists but I've heard from a source that it's said to work this way, prove it to me." that many smart people who mean well tend to slip into.

 

Yes I agree with Tesla the Electron Emperor, although you guys may be right about the Mercury not being able to be superconductive at that sustained temperature & some weird magnetic vortex field being formed, but maybe the original author didn't completely understand all of the actual workings of what was going on inside the supposedly TR 3B craft developed under the Aurora project. As many people who claim to work in secret government facilities say they don't get to work on all parts of a covert project/craft. Just separately & in pieces possibly as a security precaution that is obviously working as seen here. Maybe the author didn't have a firm grasp of all the physics involved & only speculated of only a piece of a puzzle that he saw & assumed was right. Although the piece the author publishes seems to be partially untrue, henceforth, he looses his credibility. However, there is a part to his claim that does raises questions much like the the BBC's "The Tomorrow's World" show or the spinning Frisbee analogy made. Although the author not completely true, does this not at least peak some of your curiosity of future possibilities for technological advancement? 50 years ago, there's no way people would imagine some of the technology we take granted for everyday. Robert Forwards Anti-gravity guidelines can be found here for those who are to lazy to look it up themselves.

 

Robert Foward PDF

 

I also agree with Tesla the Electron Emperor on the point that it would be interesting to analyze or to discover technology that would be powerful enough to react with the earth's natural magnetic forces in such a strong way to propel it so dramatically. Or maybe instead of propelling the object perhaps it just manipulated & bent the light around it after the bright flash. That is not so far fetch as companies for the US military have recently been developing light bending technology as seen in camouflage uniforms talked about here:

Camouflage

 

http://www.desertdeu...m/MultiCam.html

& also it would be cool if someone here could find a clip of that BBC show, otherwise we have nothing to go on. John can you find a clip for us to look at?

guide to antigravity.pdf

Edited January 10, 2011 by Science_Guy