Gay Marriage

[Sayonara]

The discussion which emerged in this thread regarding a hypothetical cure for homosexuality has been moved here:

http://www.scienceforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=27232

[ParanoiA]

Does anyone over 10 years old really like any parades? St. Patrick's Day? Santa Claus (yawn).

 

I think so, although I share your sentiment. They're just an annoyance, a day when I have to fight to get around downtown while all the non-downtowners try to figure out how to deal with all the one-way streets and lack of parking. Seems like they always do this on a week day...when I have to work and am forced to interface with this mess.

[john5746]

Gay marriage put the United States behind other countries, therefore we must condemn it.

 

You want other countries on our behind?

[Physia]

In what way has it put the US "behind" other countries, and why should some subjective ranking against other countries take priority over the welfare of your own citizens?

 

In the way that other countries think less of you because you allowed gay marriage.

It is the same as me dissing a homosexual (for example) at school, work, public, etc. Other people's voices are important, as us being a superpower.

 

It doesn't take priority, it is a priority for us to be dominating in all means.

Man and woman were made to marry each other, and bring new lives to earth.

Take "Adam And Eve" Christian myth for example, I doubt it has any homosexuals getting married, but as I said it is a myth and it is highly believed to be untrue, except in the religious sense.

 

That's my opinion anyways, you don't need to take it as a serious matter, for it is not in my hand to control this matter, and decide whether it should or should not be.

 

cheers

[Physia]

You want other countries on our behind?

 

No, I want other countries to remember that we are still over them .

[john5746]

That's my opinion anyways, you don't need to take it as a serious matter, for it is not in my hand to control this matter, and decide whether it should or should not be.

 

cheers

 

Yeah, I don't think you are being taken seriously. Unfortunately, there are a great many people who have the same level of critical thinking skills as you. Some may even be in positions of authority.

 

A country with enough firepower to destroy humanity, filled with people with irrational beliefs. Very scarry!

[Physia]

Yeah, I don't think you are being taken seriously. Unfortunately, there are a great many people who have the same level of critical thinking skills as you. Some may even be in positions of authority.

 

A country with enough firepower to destroy humanity, filled with people with irrational beliefs. Very scarry!

 

You'll notice that humanity is being destroyed by your own hands sometime, too late yet you'll notice .

 

Gay marriage is not a good picture about the United States of America, greatest nation in the world. If you fail to notice that we were, still are, and will remain the greatest, then you lack a sense of patriotism and need to just get out of this country for its best .

 

Let's hope our authorities will bring us peace and harmony, and not just another disgusting phase of this lovely life; this time illustrated as gay marriage.

 

Politics my brother, politics and religion are more important than anything at this moment. There are people out there, including the American troops, are being killed for who they are and what they believe in. I don't think that can be substituted by gays getting married, can it be?

 

cheers

[Sayonara]

So you don't think that cherishing the right of an individual to make their own choices is a good feature of American democracy then?

 

It is ironic that your own words - "for who they are and what they believe in" - do not concern you at all.

[ParanoiA]

Gay marriage is not a good picture about the United States of America, greatest nation in the world. If you fail to notice that we were, still are, and will remain the greatest, then you lack a sense of patriotism and need to just get out of this country for its best .

 

I don't get this. Personal liberty and freedom is not a good picture about the united states? If anything it solidifies the original intent of america. I fail to see the relationship between gay marriage and patriotism. In fact, that whole paragraph seems a mess.

 

Let's hope our authorities will bring us peace and harmony, and not just another disgusting phase of this lovely life; this time illustrated as gay marriage.

 

Wouldn't we get peace and harmony by letting them get married? Actually, allow me to re-word that to a more accurate distinction - wouldn't we get peace and harmony by not interfering with their marriage? I prefer the government to stay the hell out of my life, I've seen the mess they've become.

 

Politics my brother, politics and religion are more important than anything at this moment. There are people out there, including the American troops, are being killed for who they are and what they believe in. I don't think that can be substituted by gays getting married, can it be?

 

Dead american troops and gay marriage? You won't maintain any credibility with people when you so obviously force two ideas together that have nothing to do with each other, in a feeble attempt at shaming people into your view. That's what terrorists do.

 

The american troops are not be killed for what they believe in, they're being killed because they're on foreign soil with guns and artillery - they're being killed for what some politicians believe in and have duped you into believing in as well. Yeah, it's because we're "free" right? Nothing to do with military invasions, bases, sanctions...none of that....

[Physia]

So you don't think that cherishing the right of an individual to make their own choices is a good feature of American democracy then?

 

It is ironic that your own words - "for who they are and what they believe in" - do not concern you at all.

 

Too much freedom burdens the people.

People should make choices to help their society and not put it backwards.

In the United States, there should only be work, education, and politics; nothing more and nothing less.

 

Gay marriage is disgusting and goes against our motto "In God We Trust."

 

American soldiers are Americans and are being killed because of that. They believe in freedom, and they die because of that. That's not irony.

[Physia]

I don't get this. Personal liberty and freedom is not a good picture about the united states? If anything it solidifies the original intent of america. I fail to see the relationship between gay marriage and patriotism. In fact, that whole paragraph seems a mess.

 

We're fighting a monotheistic religion, in an indirect way, but I would like to leave that out of here for now. Their beliefs are anti-gay marriage, in fact any monotheistic religion that I know of only supports marriage between a male and a female.

Allowing gay marriage in here gives a bad picture. I refuse that. You're a patriot when you do good for your country and show your full support to it .

 

Wouldn't we get peace and harmony by letting them get married? Actually, allow me to re-word that to a more accurate distinction - wouldn't we get peace and harmony by not interfering with their marriage? I prefer the government to stay the hell out of my life, I've seen the mess they've[/i'] become.

 

Not exactly; rumors are false, yet they are strong.

 

Dead american troops and gay marriage? You won't maintain any credibility with people when you so obviously force[/i'] two ideas together that have nothing to do with each other, in a feeble attempt at shaming people into your view. That's what terrorists do.

 

Both ideas have something in common; the United States.

 

The american troops are not be killed for what they believe in, they're being killed because they're on foreign soil with guns and artillery - they're being killed for what some politicians[/i'] believe in and have duped you into believing in as well. Yeah, it's because we're "free" right? Nothing to do with military invasions, bases, sanctions...none of that....

 

They're being killed because they are Americans.

We're in a state of war for the time-being, you can notice that right?

On foreign soil or on native soil, we're carrying arms to fight for a specific goal.

Why did we invade countries during World War II? In fact, why did we carry arms and fight? It wasn't our war, was it?

 

You can disagree with the government and politicians all you want my friend, but you can't deny the atrocities the other side of the world committed towards the troops and the United States. To do so is plain treason.

[the tree]

Too much freedom burdens the people.

What? You're not serious? You would complain about too much freedom?

 

People should make choices to help their society and not put it backwards.

How is increasing personal liberty putting your country backwards?

 

Gay marriage is disgusting...

Ugly people in relationships is pretty gross as well, you'd ban that just because it's disgusting?

 

American soldiers are Americans and are being killed because of that.

They are being killed because they are the occupying force, in case you hadn't noticed, the coalition isn't just American.

 

They believe in freedom, and they die because of that.

How can you seriously believe that? Take all the threats from all terrorists ever, do any of them mention giving a damn about whether you believe in freedom or not? The same goes for insurgents, they act because of what Americans do, not because of some ridiculous idea about the principles they hold.

 

...in fact any monotheistic religion that I know of only supports marriage between a male and a female.

Then do some research, since your in America you have the added convenience of churches that are particularly passionate about allowing gay marriage have pride-flags outside, they're all over the place.

[ParanoiA]

Allowing gay marriage in here gives a bad picture. I refuse that. You're a patriot when you do good for your country and show your full support to it .

 

Oh I get it, you choose to live your life on other people's terms and you expect us to do the same. You want to restrict freedom and advance oppression in order to make monotheistic adversaries content with us? I reject such notions, vehemently and proudly. I prefer freedom - real freedom.

 

And you're not a patriot when you advocate interference in civil liberties. Government should have ZERO say in what marriage is. I don't care if a midget wants to marry a carrot - that's none of your business. That's what real freedom is. A good patriot will always support the advancement of his country and the liberty of its people.

 

Both ideas have something in common; the United States.

 

So what about the KKK and Wal-Mart? Both ideas have the united states in common too. So, according to your logic, they are connected. Due to the existence of the KKK, Wal-mart has flourished. We need to crush the KKK in order to stop Wal-Mart from owning the country and selling it in bulk to poor countries.

 

They're being killed because they are Americans.

 

Exactly, because AMERICANS can't keep their noses out of anybody's business. Because AMERICANS meddle with their governments and then act all surprised when they get pissed about it. Because AMERICANS make believe that our freedom is being attacked while we occupy their soil and pretend that's not it.

 

We're in a state of war for the time-being' date=' you can notice that right?

On foreign soil or on native soil, we're carrying arms to fight for a specific goal.[/quote']

 

Yes, our goal is to secure oil and establish a foothold in the middle east. We want to redirect their terrorism to their own territory - and we do that by establishing a presence in their territory - keeping them from focusing on our own soil. We dupe you and the rest of the american sheeple into buying into it by selling nifty slogans like "fighting for our freedom". They have successfully got you believing and advocating the idea that our behavior in the middle east is just fine and the people over there have no issues with it at all - it's that we're free.

 

You make believe it's not the thousands, if not millions of dead that we share responsibility for in the form of CIA meddling, behind the scenes coups, sanctions, "war on terror" - you name it. We would NEVER allow a foreign power to treat us like that - NEVER. Anyone who thinks our freedom is being threatened, apparently believes we should have the freedom to subjogate and imperialize.

 

England did far less than that to us, yet we mounted an 8 year revolutionary war to kick them out - we'd rather die than be dictated to by them. Why is that so hard to understand? We just celebrated this yesterday...

 

You can disagree with the government and politicians all you want my friend, but you can't deny the atrocities the other side of the world committed towards the troops and the United States. To do so is plain treason.

 

Who's denying the atrocities? And it isn't treason even if we were. I think you need to look that word up before you use it. I don't have any love for terrorists and in fact, I view them as children. Much of the middle east suffers from trust fund mentallity - oil in the ground. If it wasn't for oil, why would we give a crap about that region? They just sell rights to drill for their oil - don't have to lift a finger to make ridiculous amounts of money.

 

They are irrational in their politics and governments. We don't interface well because they don't want to. The thing is, we force the issue and impose ourselves on that region - in politics, business, and etc. I would much rather ignore them until their governments grow up and act like adults. But we won't...we'd much rather impose ourselves and continue the ideas that promote hatred for the US and act all surprised when they attack us.

[Sayonara]

Physia, if you have any interest in staying on this site as a contributing member, then you need to reconsider your tendencies to drift towards hate speech and logical fallacies.

 

They are not consistent with our purpose.

[Glider]

No, I want other countries to remember that we are still over them .

Interesting perspective. I'm sure it'll go along way towards gaining the respect of the rest of the world.

[Phi for All]

In the way that other countries think less of you because you allowed gay marriage.

Other countries like Great Britain, Germany, France, Spain, The Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, South Africa, Belgium, Finland, Canada, countries like those? They all allow gay marriage or something equivalent. You must be talking about countries like Sudan, Iran, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, North Korea, and China. Those countries all think like you do.

It is the same as me dissing a homosexual (for example) at school, work, public, etc. Other people's voices are important, as us being a superpower.

So when you're disrespecting homosexuals at work, school and in public, you're doing so because you want to look good in the eyes of others because their opinions matter more to you?

It doesn't take priority, it is a priority for us to be dominating in all means.

I grew up believing the US had the right to lead only if we did so by example. Leaders require followers and a good follower doesn't follow blindly.

Man and woman were made to marry each other, and bring new lives to earth.

Take "Adam And Eve" Christian myth for example, I doubt it has any homosexuals getting married, but as I said it is a myth and it is highly believed to be untrue, except in the religious sense.

So you get the idea that man and woman were made to marry each other from a myth that is highly believed to be untrue? Sounds like pretty shaky ground to build an argument that condemns one person in twenty.

Allowing gay marriage in here gives a bad picture. I refuse that. You're a patriot when you do good for your country and show your full support to it.

A bad picture?! Oh yeah, to those other countries whose opinions matter so much to you. I don't know why you want to be like *them*. I thought you liked the US. Or are you wrapping up your hatred of homosexuals with your love of country and pretending they are the same?

 

Just watch out when you play the patriotism card. You need to remember that the United States allows dissent against it's leaders, always has and has always been the stronger for it, even envied for it. I call it open-eyed patriotism. Let's leave the blind patriotism to the terrorists, shall we?

[the tree]

Guys, I think we've torn apart the same couple of posts quite a few times each in our own little way. Whilst redundancy is handy in forming an argument, let's not aim for a rebuttal overload o.k.?

[Sayonara]

Especially since we all know physia isn't going to let a little thing like rebuttal stand in his way.

[Physia]

What? You're not serious? You would complain about too much freedom?

 

I would worry about too much freedom.

 

How is increasing personal liberty putting your country backwards[/i']?

 

Gay marriage gives a bad image to our enemy. They're religious; gay marriage does not go along with their religion. You'll bring the point of "so you prefer your image to your enemy than the image to your countrymen," I'm sure, so I'll reply to it right now. It's not that; it's politics.

 

Ugly people in relationships is pretty gross as well, you'd ban that just because it's disgusting?

 

Not in my dictionary, no.

 

They are being killed because they are the occupying force, in case you hadn't noticed, the coalition isn't just American.

 

They are being killed because they believe that a human being shall live free and not under tyrannical dictators or leaders. They are being killed because they are American. And I do notice that there are non Americans in there, but same procedure goes for them as well. I agree with you that they are an occupying force, but this occupying force is accepted by a good percent of the Iraqis. Better yet, this occupying force tends to improve Iraq whereas they are destroying it.

 

How can you seriously believe that? Take all the threats from all terrorists ever, do any of them mention giving a damn about whether you believe in freedom or not? The same goes for insurgents, they act because of what Americans do, not because of some ridiculous idea about the principles they hold.

 

Should I call that a sense of humor? They are a death culture and their main principle is "convert to Islam or die." That's how they refer to freedom, in an indirect way.

 

Then do some research, since your in America you have the added convenience of churches that are particularly passionate about allowing gay marriage have pride-flags outside, they're all over the place.

 

I would actually go by the principles that the Church was built upon, rather than what some materialistic priests think. Churches have been turned into a business my friend, especially in the United States. I wouldn't use these Churches as an example.

 

Oh I get it, you choose to live your life on other people's terms and you expect us to do the same. You want to restrict freedom and advance oppression in order to make monotheistic adversaries content with us? I reject such notions, vehemently and proudly. I prefer freedom - real freedom.

 

And you're not a patriot when you advocate interference in civil liberties. Government should have ZERO say in what marriage is. I don't care if a midget wants to marry a carrot - that's none of your business. That's what real freedom is. A good patriot will always support the advancement of his country and the liberty of its people.

 

Actually, I'm not trying to impose monotheistic adversaries upon you, but I'm telling you that it is a subject to consider when speaking about this topic. We have enough freedom, live with it.

 

So what about the KKK and Wal-Mart? Both ideas have the united states in common too. So, according to your logic, they are connected. Due to the existence of the KKK, Wal-mart has flourished. We need to crush the KKK in order to stop Wal-Mart from owning the country and selling it in bulk to poor countries.

 

And according to my logic, dead American troops are more important than gay marriage.

 

Exactly, because AMERICANS can't keep their noses out of anybody's business. Because AMERICANS meddle with their governments and then act all surprised when they get pissed about it. Because AMERICANS make believe that our freedom[/i'] is being attacked while we occupy their soil and pretend that's not it.

 

If we do not act, who will?

 

Yes' date=' our goal is to secure oil and establish a foothold in the middle east. We want to redirect their terrorism to their own territory - and we do that by establishing a [i']presence in their territory - keeping them from focusing on our own soil. We dupe you and the rest of the american sheeple into buying into it by selling nifty slogans like "fighting for our freedom". They have successfully got you believing and advocating the idea that our behavior in the middle east is just fine and the people over there have no issues with it at all - it's that we're free.

 

You make believe it's not the thousands, if not millions of dead that we share responsibility for in the form of CIA meddling, behind the scenes coups, sanctions, "war on terror" - you name it. We would NEVER allow a foreign power to treat us like that - NEVER. Anyone who thinks our freedom is being threatened, apparently believes we should have the freedom to subjogate and imperialize.

 

England did far less than that to us, yet we mounted an 8 year revolutionary war to kick them out - we'd rather die than be dictated to by them. Why is that so hard to understand? We just celebrated this yesterday...

 

Who's denying the atrocities? And it isn't treason even if we were. I think you need to look that word up before you use it. I don't have any love for terrorists and in fact, I view them as children. Much of the middle east suffers from trust fund mentallity - oil in the ground. If it wasn't for oil, why would we give a crap about that region? They just sell rights to drill for their oil - don't have to lift a finger to make ridiculous amounts of money.

 

They are irrational in their politics and governments. We don't interface well because they don't want to. The thing is, we force the issue and impose ourselves on that region - in politics, business, and etc. I would much rather ignore them until their governments grow up and act like adults. But we won't...we'd much rather impose ourselves and continue the ideas that promote hatred for the US and act all surprised when they attack us.

 

You're fighting a death culture; they will spread if we don't act now. Our presence in the Middle East is to decrease their numbers and furthermore remove it and end its existence. All happens through democratic governments. There are more things to worry about than oil. Oil is a tiny reason of why we are there, and no oil is not why these people kill each other. They kill each other because they are being spoon-fed fallacious anti-Israel, anti-Jewish, and anti-American propaganda, not forgetting to add the sectarian hatred they have for each other. Our presence in there revived this, but was not the reason of why it started.

 

Ignore them all you want, but you can't ignore the fact that they are there and are capable of growing stronger if we don't act.

 

Oh I get it, you choose to live your life on other people's terms and you expect us to do the same. You want to restrict freedom and advance oppression in order to make monotheistic adversaries content with us? I reject such notions, vehemently and proudly. I prefer freedom - real freedom.

 

And you're not a patriot when you advocate interference in civil liberties. Government should have ZERO say in what marriage is. I don't care if a midget wants to marry a carrot - that's none of your business. That's what real freedom is. A good patriot will always support the advancement of his country and the liberty of its people.

 

Actually, I'm not trying to impose monotheistic adversaries upon you, but I'm telling you that it is a subject to consider when speaking about this topic. We have enough freedom, live with it.

 

So what about the KKK and Wal-Mart? Both ideas have the united states in common too. So, according to your logic, they are connected. Due to the existence of the KKK, Wal-mart has flourished. We need to crush the KKK in order to stop Wal-Mart from owning the country and selling it in bulk to poor countries.

 

And according to my logic, dead American troops are more important than gay marriage.

 

Exactly, because AMERICANS can't keep their noses out of anybody's business. Because AMERICANS meddle with their governments and then act all surprised when they get pissed about it. Because AMERICANS make believe that our freedom[/i'] is being attacked while we occupy their soil and pretend that's not it.

 

If we do not act, who will?

 

Yes' date=' our goal is to secure oil and establish a foothold in the middle east. We want to redirect their terrorism to their own territory - and we do that by establishing a [i']presence in their territory - keeping them from focusing on our own soil. We dupe you and the rest of the american sheeple into buying into it by selling nifty slogans like "fighting for our freedom". They have successfully got you believing and advocating the idea that our behavior in the middle east is just fine and the people over there have no issues with it at all - it's that we're free.

 

You make believe it's not the thousands, if not millions of dead that we share responsibility for in the form of CIA meddling, behind the scenes coups, sanctions, "war on terror" - you name it. We would NEVER allow a foreign power to treat us like that - NEVER. Anyone who thinks our freedom is being threatened, apparently believes we should have the freedom to subjogate and imperialize.

 

England did far less than that to us, yet we mounted an 8 year revolutionary war to kick them out - we'd rather die than be dictated to by them. Why is that so hard to understand? We just celebrated this yesterday...

 

Who's denying the atrocities? And it isn't treason even if we were. I think you need to look that word up before you use it. I don't have any love for terrorists and in fact, I view them as children. Much of the middle east suffers from trust fund mentallity - oil in the ground. If it wasn't for oil, why would we give a crap about that region? They just sell rights to drill for their oil - don't have to lift a finger to make ridiculous amounts of money.

 

They are irrational in their politics and governments. We don't interface well because they don't want to. The thing is, we force the issue and impose ourselves on that region - in politics, business, and etc. I would much rather ignore them until their governments grow up and act like adults. But we won't...we'd much rather impose ourselves and continue the ideas that promote hatred for the US and act all surprised when they attack us.

 

You're fighting a death culture; they will spread if we don't act now. Our presence in the Middle East is to decrease their numbers and furthermore remove it and end its existence. All happens through democratic governments. There are more things to worry about than oil. Oil is a tiny reason of why we are there, and no oil is not why these people kill each other. They kill each other because they are being spoon-fed fallacious anti-Israel, anti-Jewish, and anti-American propaganda, not forgetting to add the sectarian hatred they have for each other. Our presence in there revived this, but was not the reason of why it started.

 

Ignore them all you want, but you can't ignore the fact that they are there and are capable of growing stronger if we don't act.

 

Physia, if you have any interest in staying on this site as a contributing member, then you need to reconsider your tendencies to drift towards hate speech and logical fallacies.

 

They are not consistent with our purpose.

 

Honestly, I do not intend to promote hatred. There is opposition everywhere; opposition on here makes this forum more intense and fun to debate in.

 

My presence here is not quite much, I come here once in few weeks. However, I don't decide whether I stay or not. Don't warn, just do what you want to do. This is the internet afterall, and each person has his point of view and is entitled to it.

 

Interesting perspective. I'm sure it'll go along way towards gaining the respect of the rest of the world.

 

A death culture won't respect you no matter what you do. If you stay out of it and act like a little country boy, they'll disrespect you more.

 

High school in the United States is a great simple example :wink:.

 

Other countries like Great Britain, Germany, France, Spain, The Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, South Africa, Belgium, Finland, Canada, countries like those? They all allow gay marriage or something equivalent. You must be talking about countries like Sudan, Iran, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, North Korea, and China. Those countries all think like you do.

 

They are still countries, and everybody's opinion matters.

Two thumbs up, you are good at geography.

 

So when you're disrespecting homosexuals at work, school and in public, you're doing so because you want to look good in the eyes of others because their opinions matter more to you?

 

I don't disrespect people in the first place, unless they disrespect me. Therefore, I can't really reply to you, but to answer your question; I accept everybody's opinion, but that doesn't mean I have to go with it.

 

I grew up believing the US had the right to lead only if we did so by example. Leaders require followers and a good follower doesn't follow blindly.

 

You can make conclusions pretty fast, I hope that satisfies you.

A good follower does not take on the internal struggle more than the external one; once you balance the two, you will conclude a good follower.

 

So you get the idea that man and woman were made to marry each other from a myth that is highly believed to be untrue? Sounds like pretty shaky ground to build an argument that condemns one person in twenty.

 

This myth is found in the bible, I believe it's true. Everybody is entitled to his opinion, and since all of this is opinion-biased then I guess none of this is a solid argument. That's according to your logic.

 

A bad picture?! Oh yeah, to those other countries whose opinions matter so much to you. I don't know why you want to be like *them*. I thought you liked the US. Or are you wrapping up your hatred of homosexuals with your love of country and pretending they are the same?

 

Being like them in which perspective? I do not really "hate" homosexuals, so don't run off to conclusions.

 

Just watch out when you play the patriotism card. You need to remember that the United States allows dissent against it's leaders, always has and has always been the stronger for it, even envied for it. I call it open-eyed patriotism. Let's leave the blind patriotism to the terrorists, shall we?

 

You surely love to go into conclusions, and let's leave that to the terrorists, shall we? I play my patriotism card from both point of views, whereas you play it from the internal one.

Does living between such people make a difference? I believe it doesn't, because simply it is open for you to learn about them, rather than listen to some politicians speak. Learn and interpret, then conclude.

 

Especially since we all know physia isn't going to let a little thing like rebuttal stand in his way.

 

Maybe a little vacation in Beirut's southern suburb would be good for you to learn. Otherwise, don't speak :wink:.

-----------------------------------------------------

 

If a law that allows gay marriage was passed and confirmed, then I welcome it with open arms.

 

I am not going to stand on each two gays marrying each other and slaughter them just for the sake of it. I believe in humanity.

 

It is my right to oppose and believe differently than most of you or all of you, just as it is your right to believe what you believe in. You should know that you can't force others to believe in what you believe in, because by doing so you are doing what our enemy is doing. They are forcing us to do what they do, but only the educated and the one that knows how to deal with internal and external problems can deal with their force and use it against them.

 

cheers.

[foodchain]

Quoted from Physia

 

It is my right to oppose and believe differently than most of you or all of you, just as it is your right to believe what you believe in. You should know that you can't force others to believe in what you believe in, because by doing so you are doing what our enemy is doing. They are forcing us to do what they do, but only the educated and the one that knows how to deal with internal and external problems can deal with their force and use it against them.

 

cheers.

 

Well then, you should have nothing against same sex marriage right, unless you feel the need to enforce your beliefs on others and enforce yourself on there actions right?

 

As for the rest of your post, well the middle east has been around for a very long time, but I guess because of the actions of the Taliban it means a culture of hate and other forms of propaganda. Don’t get me wrong, I could care less for the fundamentalist religious whacko’s that like to kill people over some myth, but its not like we have something of a terribly different here at home, yet we don’t operate global campaigns to wipe it out. Just ask jerry fallwell, the Jews are all going to hell unless they convert, sounds very friendly in my opinion.

 

Last time I checked, the U.S was attacked by AQ and the taliban. We invaded Iraq on little more then fear mongering really, which shows to date as we have no proof really for why we invaded, save for the mess we have created. Lastly, if we were so loved in Iraq as you would have it, why all the problems, a small group of people must be really intelligent then to thwart the entire U.S military and a nation of people desiring a different means to survival

[lucaspa]

Gay marriage gives a bad image to our enemy. They're religious; gay marriage does not go along with their religion. You'll bring the point of "so you prefer your image to your enemy than the image to your countrymen," I'm sure, so I'll reply to it right now. It's not that; it's politics.

 

Physia, al-Qaeda hates so many things about us that you will not give up that hating us for gay marriage isn't going to make a difference. They hate us because we have our daughters go to college! Are you going to tell your daughters they can't go to college just to keep our enemies happy?

 

They are being killed because they believe that a human being shall live free and not under tyrannical dictators or leaders. They are being killed because they are American.

 

They are being killed because the civilian leadership put them into a meat grinder. They are being killed by some of the opposition because they are an occupying force.

 

We have enough freedom, live with it.

 

How do you define "enough"? And who gets to decide what is "enough" freedom?

 

You're fighting a death culture; they will spread if we don't act now. Our presence in the Middle East is to decrease their numbers and furthermore remove it and end its existence.

 

If that is the case, then we have failed. All the NIEs say that our presence is increasing the memmbership of radical Islamic groups.

 

Ignore them all you want, but you can't ignore the fact that they are there and are capable of growing stronger if we don't act.

 

You are ignoring that they are growing stronger because of HOW we have acted. There are actions and then there are actions. The war in Iraq was/is the wrong action.

 

It is my right to oppose and believe differently than most of you or all of you, just as it is your right to believe what you believe in. You should know that you can't force others to believe in what you believe in, because by doing so you are doing what our enemy is doing. .

 

But isn't forbidding gay marriage forcing us to believe in what you believe in: that gay marriage is wrong? If gay marriage is really a bad idea, won't it disappear on its own as people just decide not to do it?

 

What I find SO ironic about your post is that you are doing what our enemy is doing: trying to use force (the physical force of police, courts, and prisons) to force your beliefs on others.

 

Tell me, how does 2 gay people getting married hurt you? How does it change your life? Does it prevent you from having a happy heterosexual marriage? If so, how? Does it mean you can't get married to a person of the opposite sex? If so, why?

 

Having gay marriage certainly doesn't mean YOU have to have a gay marriage, does it? Just as having heterosexual marriage means you have get married.

 

So why are you arguing that we, as a society, should forcibly stop gays from getting married? It's because of your beliefs, isn't it?

[Daecon]

10 reasons Gay Marriage is wrong

 

1. Being gay is not natural. And as you know good people have always rejected unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.

 

2. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.

 

3. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because, as you know, a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.

 

4. Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.

 

5. Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed. The sanctity of Britany Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.

 

6. Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.

 

7. Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.

 

8. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in Britain.

 

9. Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.

 

10. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans.

[Severian]

Tell me, how does 2 gay people getting married hurt you?

 

No matter how much in favour of gay marriage you may be, you must admit that lagalising gay marriage does effect non-gay couples. It changes the way society works and thinks, and since we are all part of that society it changes our lives and the way we interact or feel part of that society.

 

Now, of course, whether that change is good or bad is a personal opinion. But you should recognize that some people will like their society less because of the change. Indeed, people with very particular strong views will feel alienated from society because they no longer feel that it represents (or condones) their morality. When making a decision like this, one has to ask who we care about less - who are we happier to alienate.

 

It seems that most people posting on this thread have made up their minds who they would rather alienate. Fair enough, but what makes your choice better than anyone else's? Isn't it time to be honest and say that you don't care about the segment of society that you are alienating?

 

Personally, I would rather not alienate anyone. As I have said before, our personal relationships shouldn't need the approval of the state.

[MangoChutney]

I'm a live and let live kind of guy, although I lean to the right

 

What I think will be interesting is when the ideological left have to choose between defending the right of gay people to have a civil ceremony to recognise their commitment to each other and the Muslim community (amongst others) right to denounce the gay lifestyle

 

Is it possible to support diametrically opposed rights at the same time?

[ParanoiA]

Is it possible to support diametrically opposed rights at the same time?

 

I think so, as that's exactly my position. I believe no one has a right to interfere with gay marriage, and I believe no one has a right to stop me from making fun of them. That's live and let live.