"We won, you lost, get a life!"

[ydoaPs]

7Lhh17ZO7Zo

At about 3.5min, a great point is brought up, imo. It seems that, at least lately, it's not really about the issues. The politicians don't care about the people; they care about winning. We have numerous examples of politicians lately who may as well be internet trolls('You lie!', 'I object! I object! I object!', etc).

[iNow]

The worst part is that I don't really feel I can even blame those in Congress. I have no recourse but to blame my fellow citizens... The voters.

 

 

Hip hip hooray for the broken US system of governance!

[CaptainPanic]

Republicans especially seem to be telling lies all the time. And if it's not a lie, then at least I still do not agree with it. Of course, I'm a European, and Europeans and republicans don't mix very well... we've grown apart during the last 8 years (Bush) or so.

The democrats seem to be better... but are dragged into a mud fight.

 

It's frightening that worldwide (also in Europe!) political and scientific debates are turning into fights that I remember having with my friends at the age of 6. Arguments don't matter anymore. Shouting does. Faulty argumentation is just as valid as proper science.

Edited November 24, 2009 by CaptainPanic
fixing grammar, and adding some stuff while I was editing anyway

[ydoaPs]

It's frightening that worldwide (also in Europe!) political and scientific debates are turning into fights that I remember having with my friends at the age of 6. Arguments don't matter anymore. Shouting does. Faulty argumentation is just as valid as proper science.

 

It does seem that lately the arts of rhetoric and critical thinking have gone extinct in the general population(including the government).

[Moontanman]

There is a huge disconnect between the truth and being right in our society. It's far easier to find someone who will tell you what you want to hear than it is to look for the truth. The truth has become an embarrassment to many people's world view but instead of changing their world view they look for someone who is shouting their beliefs loudly and join in by trying to change reality by disregarding the truth in favor of feeling good about what they believe. No matter how many people tell you the Earth is flat, it never will be, reality is never decided by popularity, belief, or the need to be correct.

[bascule]

It does seem that lately the arts of rhetoric and critical thinking have gone extinct in the general population(including the government).

 

Modern dialectic and rhetoric seems to involve coming up with catch phrases/talking points and getting enough of the members of your party to repeat them often enough that people start believing they're true.

 

You don't need to be an orator, you just have to remember sound bytes like "stay the course" or "cut and run" or "flip flopper"

[CaptainPanic]

Politics became a Laundry Detergent Advertisement.

[npts2020]

Modern dialectic and rhetoric seems to involve coming up with catch phrases/talking points and getting enough of the members of your party to repeat them often enough that people start believing they're true.

 

You don't need to be an orator, you just have to remember sound bytes like "stay the course" or "cut and run" or "flip flopper"

 

Wasn't it Hitler who said something like "Make the lie big enough and tell it often enough, eventually people will believe it to be true"?

[Saryctos]

It's all pretty simple really. Say something you want people to hear in a concise, quote worthy fashion. While when you say words that others won't like, try to make it as convoluted as possible. People don't research candidates, they just hang on to the memorable bits. Much like product placement and brand recognition, it isn't the message so much as it is the impression.

 

Truth in politics only serves to provide a quotable denouncement for your opponent. If you manage your claims well enough, you can avoid memorable fact checks and people won't associate the lies with you enough to vote for the other guy.

[Syntho-sis]

Well about halfway thru he started using "they" and "them." Not "he" and "him."

 

I don't think that's a fair depiction of the entirety of the Republican Party. I mean they're a few who actually do care about serving the people and doing what is right, and making good decisions. I still believe in this country, with or without all the bickering that goes on in Washington.

 

That J.R. dude brought up a good point as well.. Which I don't need to repeat.

[iNow]

I don't think that's a fair depiction of the entirety of the Republican Party. I mean they're a few who actually do care about serving the people and doing what is right, and making good decisions.

Name more than I can count on one hand.

[ydoaPs]

Name more than I can count on one hand.

 

Surely there's at least 32 Republicans that actually care about serving the people.

[Syntho-sis]

Name more than I can count on one hand.

 

Exactly. Same with the democrats as well..

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Consecutive posts merged

Surely there's at least 32 Republicans that actually care about serving the people.

 

I don't see you caring about the people...All I see is your criticism.

 

If you can do such a fantastic job, why don't you do it?

[ydoaPs]

I don't see you caring about the people...All I see is your criticism.

How do you know I'm not a City counsel member or a Senator? You're assuming(although, in this case, it is a safe assumption). One could even make a case that my caring for the people is expressed in the fact that I am in the middle of sacrificing 6 years of my life to "defend freedom and democracy around the world".

 

If you can do such a fantastic job, why don't you do it?

Monitary issues and the fact that I'm in a contracted job for a couple more years. Would you care to donate to my Presidential campaign for 2028?

[Syntho-sis]

How do you know I'm not a City counsel member or a Senator? You're assuming(although, in this case, it is a safe assumption). One could even make a case that my caring for the people is expressed in the fact that I am in the middle of sacrificing 6 years of my life to "defend freedom and democracy around the world".

 

Who said I assumed? Maybe I have a satellite over your current location watching your every move. You just assumed I didn't have that power (but in this case it's a safe assumption .)

 

 

Monitary issues and the fact that I'm in a contracted job for a couple more years. Would you care to donate to my Presidential campaign for 2028?

 

Then why bother with the criticism of the Republican party? If we're going to scrutinize Washington, Let's include all the scoundrels. Eh?

[ydoaPs]

Then why bother with the criticism of the Republican party?

Because they're the ones who are acting out atm.

 

 

So, how about that donation?

[iNow]

I don't think that's a fair depiction of the entirety of the Republican Party. I mean they're a few who actually do care about serving the people and doing what is right, and making good decisions.

 

Name more than I can count on one hand.

 

Exactly. Same with the democrats as well..

Yeah, I had a feeling that you would be either unable or unwilling to support your claim and address my question. It's been noted. Thanks for the complete non-response.

[Syntho-sis]

Because they're the ones who are acting out atm.

 

The only 'acting out' that you and me are aware of. Man..There's so much corruption that goes on, it ain't even funny...It's insane.

 

So, how about that donation?

 

Yea sure, I'll get right on it. Would you like this bag of old multicolored ties, or my famed collection of rusty spoons?

 

No I'm serious.

[padren]

Then why bother with the criticism of the Republican party? If we're going to scrutinize Washington, Let's include all the scoundrels. Eh?

 

Surely you don't believe that "if you don't run, you can't complain" since, being a voting citizen is an exceptionally important component of our government?

 

You'll also notice that you see a lot of criticism of all the scoundrels as it comes up - this topic just happens to be about some Republican activities worth criticizing. Many Democrats get criticized over in the healthcare thread, especially the "blue dog" ones. No one is being spared scrutiny.

 

It's simply a fact when people take actions as a group that you feel need to be examined (say "The Democrats" or "The Republicans" or "The Wallstreet Bankers") you talk about that group. It's not an implied statement of everyone else not covered in that topic getting a free pass.

[Syntho-sis]

Yeah, I had a feeling that you would be either unable or unwilling to support your claim and address my question. It's been noted. Thanks for the complete non-response.

 

Haha I'm gonna ignore that belittlement. Buddy, Listen, I don't like either of the parties. But just how is it fair to say that one party is totally moronic...for lack of a better word...and totally disregard all the corruption and idiocy that the other party is spewing out?

 

I think they're are a few good men/women on both sides.. Not alot like you mentioned..

 

I also don't believe that Democrats are mostly righteous do-gooders and Republicans are mostly Evil incompetents.

 

Is that a little more clear?

[SH3RL0CK]

Yeah, I had a feeling that you would be either unable or unwilling to support your claim and address my question. It's been noted. Thanks for the complete non-response.

 

How is it at all possible to discern the motivations of anyone? It was claimed that there are some Republicans who care about serving the people. Syntho-sis cannot possibly factually back up his statement. However, he could have listed all republicans and you would have been unable to prove in every case they do not care.

 

I think it would be more constructive if we start by defining what evidence of motivation would be acceptable.

 

And then we have to decide how to deal with mixed motivations. If a selfish act also helps the public, how is this to be weighed?

[padren]

I also don't believe that Democrats are mostly righteous do-gooders and Republicans are mostly Evil incompetents.

 

Interestingly, I do believe that Democrats are mostly righteous incompetents and Republicans are mostly Evil evil-doers.

[iNow]

I think it would be more constructive if we start by defining what evidence of motivation would be acceptable. a

 

The point, gentlemen, is that he made a completely hollow and vacuous assertion which he was wholly unable to support. That is a fact which has been demonstrated by his subsequent replies.

[SH3RL0CK]

What he said was:

I don't think that's a fair depiction of the entirety of the Republican Party. I mean they're a few who actually do care about serving the people and doing what is right, and making good decisions. .

 

Which, in context, I read as an opinion. Which he is not obligated to support.

 

And in any event, he could name every Republican senator and representative because he could certainly find at least some evidence they care about people. Perhaps some of them have donated to charities. Maybe some of them have given blood. I'll bet some are organ donors too...

 

But again to my point to you: What evidence of the motivation of a politican is even possible? Or is it now acceptable to stereotype an entire class of people (Republicans)?

[iNow]

I appreciate your attempt to shift the burden of proof to me, but I do not accept that onus.