Fahrenheit 9/11-What's your opinion?

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Did anyone realize that he was copying the title from Fahrenheit 451?

 

 

(But, of course, Ray Bradbury, the author of Fahrenheit 451, copied some of his books from others as well)

[PerpetualYnquisitive]

"Fahrenheit 451" author wants title back

Ray Bradbury claims Michael Moore stole movie title

 

Full article: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5324876/

[Aardvark]

The 'dark and disturbing' links you post don't seem to be saying anything original which i haven't already read in mainstream media.

 

Pakistans ISI was linked with the Taliban and Bin Laden. Yes, already common knowledge.

 

After 9/11 the USA decided to work with the ISI in fighting the Taliban and Bin Laden. Under heavy pressure the ISI then turned on its former Taliban friends. Common knowledge.

 

 

Where are the dark and distrubing allegations? Only sly hints that ISI might have had something to do with 9/11. This seems remarkably unlikely and no evidence is advanced to make that case. If it was the case i'm fairly sure the US would have had as much fun blasting Karachi as it had in Kabul.

[Phi for All]

"Fahrenheit 451" author wants title back

Ray Bradbury claims Michael Moore stole movie title

I think Moore made a professional discourtesy by not asking permission to spoof the title, but I'm actually more embarassed for Bradbury about this. He keeps saying Moore stole his title and he wants it back. Firstly, it's not his title, it's been changed slightly which makes it valid for Moore to use it. Plus there is no way to copyright a temperature found in nature. Secondly, how would Moore "give it back"?

 

Seeing as how Bradbury used the temperature 451 degrees F as the temperature at which books burn, and Moore says Fahrenheir 9/11 is the temperature at which freedom burns, there is no question he was making reference to Bradbury's work. But he is not in violation of anything but common courtesy.

[PerpetualYnquisitive]

Pakistan does not control NORAD.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/ELS305A.html

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/HUN311A.html

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHI406A.html

 

How about the insider trading? Those aren't Taliban investors. Where is the SEC?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/RUP110A.html

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/HEN204B.html

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/FLO112B.html

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/FIT403A.html

[Aardvark]

Aaaah, i see, it's all so clear now.

 

Bush attacked the twin towers to give himself an excuse to attack Afghanistan which he obviously wants to do because, uum, eer, uum, of all the valuable sand and rubble there.

[budullewraagh]

come now, your logic goes beyond that.

bush used the attacks to his financially and politically benefit; as you can see, the united states has become extremely authoritarian and bush has received kickbacks from corporations he awarded contracts to

[atinymonkey]

I seriously doubt that statement. The US sent aid' date=' weapons, money to Mujiahadeen forces during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. The Taliban only came into existence in the 1990's, some years after the end of that war, and the end of US funding, involvement.

 

A lot of people seem to have the idea that the Mujihadeen and the Taliban are interchangable, funding for one means funding for the other. That is not correct. The Taliban are a group formed from the religious colleges of Southern Afghanistan and Pakistan which went on to fight many Mujihadeen warlords. Just because the US aided Mujihadeen groups, it is false to then claim that the Taiban were aided.[/quote']

 

*Sigh* Ok, the history recap:-

 

Mujihadeen means 'Holy warriors' or 'freedom fighters' which was the name give to the groups of fighters that from 79>89 fought Russian occupation. The anti communists. It's that simple, a name given to people who fought. They were not one group, but a name given to all groups that fought. The name was not given to a political party.

 

At the end of the Afghanistan War, the Groups that formed the Mujihadeen could not co-operate to form a stable govenment. The groups fought for power. One of the groups was the Taliban who in 1996 gained majority control.

[atinymonkey]

Did anyone realize that he was copying the title from Fahrenheit 451?

 

 

(But' date=' of course, Ray Bradbury, the author of Fahrenheit 451, copied some of his books from others as well)[/quote']

 

Hang on, which books do you think Bradbury 'copied'? He's one of the founding figures in Science Fiction, I'd be interested to know what was copied.

[JaKiri]

Plus there is no way to copyright a temperature found in nature.

 

Farenheit 451 is not the temperature when paper burns, it's just something arbitrary he made up.

[Sayonara]

I thought it was supposed to be the temperature at which paper will spontaneously burst into flame.

 

[edit]

 

The actual quote from the book comes from Montag:

"Fahrenheit four five one is the temperature at which book paper catches fire and starts to burn."

 

The only evidence of this I have found so far on the Web is anecdotal.

[Skye]

It would depend on the book paper in question. There's no real standard of paper used in books, some have thick/thin/rough/smooth/etc.

[budullewraagh]

that's mostly irrelevant

 

Did anyone realize that he was copying the title from Fahrenheit 451?

yeah, i saw the correlation. f451=temp at which books burn. f911=temp at which freedom "burns". it doesn't matter that he played off of bradbury's title; rather, what matters is the film itself.

[Sayonara]

I suspect the intention was that people would notice the link. It's not terribly subtle.

[Phi for All]

Hang on, which books do you think Bradbury 'copied'? He's one of the founding figures in Science Fiction, I'd be interested to know what was copied.

The title Something Wicked This Way Comes was taken (stolen?) from Shakespeare's MacBeth. And I realize it was in the public domain at the time but I believe Fahrenheit 451 was first published in 1953, which also puts it in the public domain. I think the point is that book and film titles are too short to plagiarize unless they introduce a totally unique concept or word. For Bradbury to suggest that Moore stole his title suggests that no one else can use the word Fahrenheit in anything.

[Aardvark]

*Sigh* Ok' date=' the history recap:-

 

Mujihadeen means 'Holy warriors' or 'freedom fighters' which was the name give to the groups of fighters that from 79>89 fought Russian occupation. The anti communists. It's that simple, a name given to people who fought. They were not one group, but a name given to all groups that fought. The name was not given to a political party.

 

At the end of the Afghanistan War, the [i']Groups[/i] that formed the Mujihadeen could not co-operate to form a stable govenment. The groups fought for power. One of the groups was the Taliban who in 1996 gained majority control.

 

The Taliban was not one of the groups that fought the Russian occupation.

 

The Taliban was formed in the 1990's. That's after the Russian occupation.

 

Clear enough?

[blike]

If spoofing names violated copyrights, the porn industry would be in a lot of trouble.

[Aardvark]

come now' date=' your logic goes beyond that.

bush used the attacks to his financially and politically benefit; as you can see, the united states has become extremely authoritarian and bush has received kickbacks from corporations he awarded contracts to[/quote']

 

 

That may be so, but it doesnt mean that Bush actually arranged the attacks.

 

Thats not logical either.

[budullewraagh]

again, this isn't what the thread is about; read the title: "Fahrenheit 9/11-What's your opinion? - Science Forums and Debate - Mozilla"

[Aardvark]

But it does directly lead from the thread, Fahrenheit 9/11 is about responsibility for 9/11.

 

On the matter of Bradbury, i think he is bit a bit of a prig. He doesnt 'own' that title and there is no way it can be give back. He should just accept the implied compliment.

[atinymonkey]

The Taliban was not one of the groups that fought the Russian occupation.

 

The Taliban was formed in the 1990's. That's after the Russian occupation.

 

Clear enough?

 

That's just plain wrong. Just because you were not aware of them, and they were not predominant in Afghan affairs does not mean they don't exist. I'm getting quite tired of revisionist historians coming along presenting opinions as fact.

 

I tell you what, here is some evidence to back up the previous existence of the Taliban prior to the 1990's:-

 

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/taliban.html

 

A political party did not just popped out of nowhere and take over an entire county in the space of 8 years. They were around since the 70’s.

[Phi for All]

After seeing the movie, what I came away with was the picture of a US administration (A) that catered to the Saudi oil factions and the worldwide war industries (B). B funded many terrorist organizations, one of which was Al Qaida ©. C had their own agenda and didn't discuss it with A or B. When 9/11 occured, A & B were probably a bit stunned by the audacity of C (C was even stunned themselves at bringing down both of the WTC towers). I think the movie was also trying to imply that A=B=W (}:b)

 

The fact that A & B & W's family & friends are profiting so much from what C accomplished makes me very suspicious as to their motives. Rather than use the tragedy of 9/11 to strengthen US ties with other nations, the opposite has occured and what has strengthened are the profits of those who think war is a good thing.

[Aardvark]

A political party did not just popped out of nowhere and take over an entire county in the space of 8 years. They were around since the 70’s.

 

The Taliban did not exist in the 70's or the 80's. It's not a matter of revisionism or my not being aware of sometime, it's a fact of facts. I'm a quite tired of people making statements of opinion as through they were fact.

 

The Taliban was an organistation formed from the religious schools (madrassas) of Pakistan and Southern Afghanistan in the early 1990's. This movement did just 'pop out of nowhere'. Thats what popular movements do.

 

http://www.unomaha.edu/afghanistan_atlas/taliban, just one link, there are many, all detailing how the Taliban came into existence in the 1990's.

 

Instead of accusing others of being 'revisionist' you should check your facts.

[bloodhound]

the taliban were created by aliens as weapons of mass destruction. in then lies a hidden gene which gets triggered accidentally. aliens left

[Skye]

From reading the link http://www.infoplease.com/spot/taliban.html, I think the source debate here is between the two uses of the word taliban. One appears to be a literal use of the word, meaning religious students, for people who were educated by the Pakistani madrassas, many of whom fought during the war against the Soviets. The other is a group of these taliban, and were at the time fighting as part of the civil war around Kandahar, which was organised by Muhhamad Omar into the military/political group called the Taliban.