Fahrenheit 9/11-What's your opinion?

[Sayonara]

I realise that, but my point is that 9/11 resulted from decades of Western interference in the Middle East - it wasn't just something for bored terrorists to do one weekend.

 

I do agree that doing nothing after 9/11 would have invited further attacks, however I think a more subtle approach might have been a teensy bit better for everyone

[LucidDreamer]

I totally agree with everything you said. What idiot thought it would be a good idea to go into Iraq-oh wait I know what idiot.

[newbie]

Sorry' date=' Newbie. I suggest you go see the film again. Moore never asserted that anybody left on 9/11. There is documentation all over the internet that supports Moore's claim that the bin Laden family and other influential Saudi families were flown to evacuation points to facilitate their exit from the country due to [u']anti-Middle East sentiments[/u] at the time. Only Saudi's were extended this privelege. Moore asked the question, "At who's expense?" because it is still not clear who paid for their exodus. Certainly the initial roundup could have been paid for by the US taxpayers through the FBI, though the Saudis probably arranged for their own flights home.

 

They were questioned cursorily by the FBI (their were a lot of them--the bin Laden family is huge), but all were released TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY a few days later. If someone from your family had been responsible for the destruction of the World Trade Center towers do you think the FBI would have let you off so easily? Dale Watson, the FBI's former head of counter-terrorism, said the Saudis "were not subject to serious interviews or interrogations". According to many eye-witness sources, our government seemed much more interested in protecting the Saudis than in finding out their connections to Osama bin Laden.

 

I'd like to move on to another point that really bothers me. I have always had what I consider a pure American work ethic. Perhaps I've overdone it on occasion, but I dislike the very thought of slackers taking advantage of their employers and giving less than top job performance. George W. Bush, by 9/11/01, had already taken more vacation time than any US president in history. He had just gotten back from the longest single presidential vacation in history when this country suffered it's greatest terrorist attack. I would LOVE to hear someone defend Bush on this point.

No im sorry I have seen the film, I actually have it. The Saudi's did not leave the country until September 14th. That is when flights were resumed. There is nothing else to say. Even the 911 report confirms it. So not matter what you three say you are wrong, believe all you want from your internet sources.

[Phi for All]

No im sorry I have seen the film, I actually have it. The Saudi's did not leave the country until September 14th. That is when flights were resumed. There is nothing else to say. Even the 911 report confirms it. So not matter what you three say you are wrong, believe all you want from your internet sources.

Great that you've seen the film, but I seriously doubt that you "have it" unless it's an illegal, pirated copy. It would be nice if you'd actually read what you quoted me on. I did not say the Saudi's were flown out of the country on 9/11 and neither did Moore. They were picked up from around the country on the 12th & 13th and flown to an evacuation point. They did, as you say, leave the country on the 14th. From Logan Airport, where the hijackers themselves took off from (ironic, but not a conspiracy).

 

I always find it very telling when people say that Michael Moore is a complete liar. Like anyone else expressing his point of view, he needs to be examined closely for motive. His film has plenty of conjecture, but it also has plenty of facts in it as well. Yet you and other obvious Bushies push the load of pony crap that Moore is lying every step of the way. Your "Bill O'Reilly flaming" style of ignoring facts and bringing up the same-old-lame-old and throwing your tired, anti-liberal rant-fests just shows how completely close-minded and anti-progressive you've become. Jumping up and down, post after post, screaming, "NOBODY LEFT ON 9/11!!!" when everyone here is trying to debate facts instead of fiction has not helped the progress of this thread one bit.

 

I think Michael Moore did a creditable job of putting together this documentary. For critics who want to take it apart frame by frame there is plenty to work with. But just as Bowling for Columbine started out as a protest against guns and became a warning against sensationalist media, I think Fahrenheit 9/11 started out as protest against an inept, warmongering liar of a politician and became a warning about absolute power and the corruption of very, very rich people who want nothing more than to become even richer.

[budullewraagh]

No im sorry I have seen the film, I actually have it. The Saudi's did not leave the country until September 14th. That is when flights were resumed. There is nothing else to say. Even the 911 report confirms it. So not matter what you three say you are wrong, believe all you want from your internet sources.

dude, you're being rediculous. what you said is meaningless. we said that moore did not say that the bin ladens left on the 11th of september in 2001. stating that the bin ladens left on the 14th doesn't support your statement that moore misled people in his film.

[pulkit]

I don't know that exact number of people killed in 911 but I think it was tens of thousands of people

The exact figure is just below 3000. You can see here

 

There are of course no reliable figures for Iraq and Afghanistan (and for obvious reasons). But I won't be surprised if they were six or seven fold this number.

[Thales]

I think Michael Moore did a creditable job of putting together this documentary. For critics who want to take it apart frame by frame there is plenty to work with. But just as Bowling for Columbine started out as a protest against guns and became a warning against sensationalist media' date=' I think [i']Fahrenheit 9/11[/i] started out as protest against an inept, warmongering liar of a politician and became a warning about absolute power and the corruption of very, very rich people who want nothing more than to become even richer.

 

Spot on matey. The ignorance of how much everything else is a distroted (by out an out anti-mooreists) in every image, you see on your precious tv, is astounding.

[blike]

Moore misleads throughout the film.

 

Let's not forget about him resizing and cropping headlines on newspapers: http://tvh.rjwest.com/archives/005307.html

 

About election recounts:

"Second, make sure the chairman of your campaign is also the vote count woman. And that her state has hired a company that's gonna knock voters off the roles who aren't likely to vote for you. You can usually tell 'em by the color of their skin. [/i']Then make sure your side fights like it's life or death."

"DBT's computers had matched these people with felons, though in dozens of cases they did not share the same name, birthdate, gender or race...[A] review of state records, internal e-mails of DBT employees and testimony before the civil rights commission and an elections task force showed no evidence that minorities were specifically targeted. Records show that DBT told the state it would not use race as a criterion to identify felons. The list itself bears that out: More than 1,000 voters were matched with felons though they were of different races."

 

"On the day George W. Bush was inaugurated, tens of thousands of Americans poured into the streets of DC in one last attempt to claim what had been taken from them...No President had ever witnessed such a thing on his inauguration day."

Yes, actually Nixon did, to the tune of 60,000.

 

"[/font'] "The plan to have Bush get out of the limo for the traditional walk to the White House was scrapped."

No it wasn't. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1127937.stm

 

"Or perhaps he [bush'] just should have read the security briefing that was given to him on August 6, 2001 that said that Osama bin Laden was planning to attack America by hijacking airplanes. (shot of Bush at a meeting, date-stamped August 6, 2001) Or maybe he wasn't worried about the terrorist threat because the title of the report was too vague."

Moore implies that Bush didn't read it, he has no evidence for this. The briefing states: "We have not been able to corroborate some of the more sensational threat reporting such as that from a [deleted text] service in 1998 saying that Bin Laden wanted to hijack a U.S. aircraft to gain the release of "Blind Shaykh" ‘Umar’ Abd aI-Rahman and other U.S.-held extremists. Nevertheless, FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York."

 

"It turns out that the White House approved [/b']planes to pick up the bin Ladens and numerous other Saudis. At least six private jets and nearly two dozen commercial plans carried the Saudis and the bin Ladens out of the U.S. after September 13th. In all, 142 Saudis, including 24 members of the bin Laden family, were allowed to leave the country."

Actually, Richard Clarke approved them, the man Moore would later interview. The 9/11 commission concluded this had no adverse affects on 9/11 investigations. It also concluded that Clarke was the highest-ranking official to approve the flights. Michael Moore lied [suprise suprise]

 

I don't know about you, but usually when the police can't find a murderer don't they usually want to talk to the family members to find out where they think he might be?

According to the 9/11 report: "each of the flights we have studied was investigated by the FBI and dealt with in a professional manner prior to its departure."

"A name had been blacked out. In 1972, two airmen were suspended for failing to take their medical examination. One was George W. Bush. And the other was James R. Bath. In 2000 the documents show both names. But in 2004 Bush and White House had Bath's name blacked out. Why didn't Bush want the press and public to see Bath's name on his military records? Perhaps he was worried that the American people would find out that at one time James R. Bath was the Texas money manager for the bin Ladens.

 

Or perhaps it is mandated by Federal Law you douche (HIPPA, enacted in 2003).

 

Source for these: fifty-nine deceits in f911

 

I'll probably get bashed for using that as a source, but I'd like to see some earnest responses in defense of MM.

[jordan]

Has anyone happened to read the ant-Moore book that's out? I picked up a copy briefly of one of Moore's books and then picked up the book that was inteded as a rebutal. I was just curious if anyone's read it. Through the first few pages it was pretty funny, I thought, because it was very sarcastic. It basicly portrayed Moore as an immature guy who has to make a movie whenever things don't go his way.

 

Found the title: "Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man". Anyone read it?

[pulkit]

I will not support nor oppose/criticise Moore. I'd bring in another point frm the movie. This is referring to the fact that the American govt is using its warning levels to its maximal advantage by periodically turning it to high risk and so on.......

 

I really do think that this is very true, and frankly it seems that either there is some psychological motive behind this or there is a lot of paranoya present. C'mon the world is not as unsafe as these warning levels would have you believe.

[LucidDreamer]

I will not support nor oppose/criticise Moore. I'd bring in another point frm the movie. This is referring to the fact that the American govt is using its warning levels to its maximal advantage by periodically turning it to high risk and so on.......

 

I really do think that this is very true' date=' and frankly it seems that either there is some psychological motive behind this or there is a lot of paranoya present. C'mon the world is not as unsafe as these warning levels would have you believe.[/quote']

 

I can't help but be a little suspicious myself. I would like to think that no one would use that kind of thing for a political advantage. It's possible that there is some truth to your statement though. But there is also truth in "its better to be safe than sorry."

[newbie]

......

I meant to quote budullewraagh' date=' but really it didn't matter. I never said what you are saying, you need to read it and understand it before you reply, I said [i']"Moore gives the distinct impression in the film that the Bin Ladens left the country before others were allowed."[/i] For budullewraagh to say what he did is complete nonsense and he needs to listen and learn. What I said is true no matter how many internet sources you use. The Saudi's did not leave the country until flights resumed, end of story.

 

FYI budullewraagh and Phi for All, that does support my statement.

[Sayonara]

I don't approve of the approach Moore uses at all, but the fact is that he is far more likely to give you good information than are the current administration.

 

Admonish him all you (pl) like for misrepresenting events or timings, but do not try to paint him as a liar or tag him with ridiculous and meaningless monikers such as "liberal" (or whatever nonsensical polar extremes have been brainwashed into you). It just makes you look like vacuous fascist lunatics.

[Thales]

I really do think that this is very true, and frankly it seems that either there is some psychological motive behind this .... the world is not as unsafe as these warning levels would have you believe.

 

Fear controls people. In the middle ages people were made to fear god via the church. In an ever increasingly materialistic society the govt. has assumed control and is relishing in the ease with which they can control the level of fear.

 

I get scared sometimes too, when i think about how G. W. Bush can rule the richest nation in the world in such dangerous times. What scares me even more though is those who blindly support him. Those who don't see him for what he is, a dim-wit, an idiot and an out an out failure of a president. I understand the need to support the president in time's of war, those patriotic feeling rushing though the veins of its citerzens. But open your eyes, don't belive the lies and assess; what Mr Bushes motivation/inspiration is, and look starkly at his achievements, if you can see any overwhelmingly positive things that W. has achieved in his life please post them here.

 

I said it before but I'll say it again, if it wasn't for the commercial media's lack of objectivity then an emotive film like Moore's wouldn't be needed. Have Moore critics watched any of his earlier work? He plays the role of a social conscience, with a tounge in cheek approach designed to entertain while informing. I think he does a good job and for those of you who wish to label him a liar, well there isn't too much point in trying to convince you otherwise but I will say this:> If you applied the same level of critical analysis to what you watch everyday, to what this president tells you, I'm sure you'll begin to see where Moore is coming from...

[Phi for All]

And the Medal of Freedom goes to... Thales! Bravo! You've summed up my feelings very nicely. Since we can't get objective media here in the US, we must rely on those of you who aren't as affected to give us the broader, cleaner view.

[newbie]

Fear controls people. In the middle ages people were made to fear god via the church. In an ever increasingly materialistic society the govt. has assumed control and is relishing in the ease with which they can control the level of fear.

 

I get scared sometimes too' date=' when i think about how G. W. Bush can rule the richest nation in the world in such dangerous times. What scares me even more though is those who blindly support him. Those who don't see him for what he is, a dim-wit, an idiot and an out an out failure of a president. I understand the need to support the president in time's of war, those patriotic feeling rushing though the veins of its citerzens. But open your eyes, don't belive the lies and assess; what Mr Bushes motivation/inspiration is, and look starkly at his achievements, if you can see any overwhelmingly positive things that W. has achieved in his life please post them here.

 

I said it before but I'll say it again, if it wasn't for the commercial media's lack of objectivity then an emotive film like Moore's wouldn't be needed. Have Moore critics watched any of his earlier work? He plays the role of a social conscience, with a tounge in cheek approach designed to entertain while informing. I think he does a good job and for those of you who wish to label him a liar, well there isn't too much point in trying to convince you otherwise but I will say this:> If you applied the same level of critical analysis to what you watch everyday, to what this president tells you, I'm sure you'll begin to see where Moore is coming from...[/quote'] Hopefully when I am done you will see the fallacy of Moore. Going back to 2002 at the Telluride Film Festival he stated his view that Osama Bin Laden should be considered innocent until proven guilty. This was, he said, the American way. The intervention in Afghanistan, he maintained, had been at least to that extent unjustified. I am not sure how or why-- since we knew as much as we did then as we do now-- has since apparently persuaded Moore that Osama Bin Laden is as guilty as hell. Indeed, Osama is suddenly so guilty and so all-powerful that any other discussion of any other topic is a dangerous “distraction” from the fight against him. Who's the 'dim-wit' now?

 

 

 

A few days after September 11th, Moore states that no military action should be taken against Afghanistan, " Declare war? War against whom? One guy in the desert whom we can never seem to find? Are our leaders telling us that the most powerful country on earth cannot dispose of one sick evil f---wad of a guy? Because if that is what you are telling us, then we are truly screwed." Although Moore opposed the Afghanistan War, Fahrenheit criticizes Bush for not putting more troops into Afghanistan sooner. Who's the 'idiot' now?

 

 

 

Moore supports terrorists, Moore says "The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not “insurgents” or “terrorists” or “The Enemy.” They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow -- and they will win" about the forces who are killing Americans and trying to impose totalitarian rule on Iraq. He is entilted to his opinion even if wrong but he is still being dishonest in Fahrenheit when he pronounces his concern for American troops, he is cheering for the forces which are killing our troops, as he equates the killers with freedom-fighters. And if you think that the people who are slaughtering American soldiers, American civilians, Iraqi soldiers, and Iraqi civilians are terrorists rather than "minutemen," then it is true that Moore supports terrorists. Who's the failure now?

 

 

 

That is just some of the crazyness of Michael Moore, To believe anything that this man says and actually take it seriously one needs a hard look at themselves. Like I said before Moore's movie was just that, a 'movie'.

[Thales]

...any other discussion of any other topic is a dangerous “distraction” from the fight against him. Who's the 'dim-wit' now?

A. Mr Bush.

Iraq had little to do with Afghanistan' date=' at least from a t[i']error[/i]fying perspective.

 

A few days after September 11th' date=' Moore states that no military action should be taken against Afghanistan, "[i'] Declare war? War against whom? One guy in the desert whom we can never seem to find? Are our leaders telling us that the most powerful country on earth cannot dispose of one sick evil f---wad of a guy? Because if that is what you are telling us, then we are truly screwed.[/i]" Although Moore opposed the Afghanistan War, Fahrenheit criticizes Bush for not putting more troops into Afghanistan sooner. Who's the 'idiot' now?

If an American goes overseas and conducts a terrorist operation should America as a whole be repremanded? This was the reasoning behind Moore's intial statement. Fahrenheit criticiezes the fact the special operations forces didn't enter the area where bin laden was suspected of hiding until two months after the start of official operations (the time when they acknowledge the slaughter from afar has begun)...more than plenty of time for him to escape, which is more than questionable seeing as he was the apparent objective. So the idiot is still Bush.

 

Moore supports terrorists' date=' Moore says "[i']The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not “insurgents” or “terrorists” or “The Enemy.” They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow -- and they will win[/i]" about the forces who are killing Americans and trying to impose totalitarian rule on Iraq. He is entilted to his opinion even if wrong but he is still being dishonest in Fahrenheit when he pronounces his concern for American troops, he is cheering for the forces which are killing our troops, as he equates the killers with freedom-fighters. And if you think that the people who are slaughtering American soldiers, American civilians, Iraqi soldiers, and Iraqi civilians are terrorists rather than "minutemen," then it is true that Moore supports terrorists. Who's the failure now?

 

You are my friend. Not everything is black and white. If your country was invaded by an oppressive power(the motivation behind the oppression may well be in your long term best interest, but even in this rose colored take on the whole situation, America is still the oppressive power) would you not take up arms? Saying that people have a right to fight for their land, a right to defend/avenge themselves against an aggressor is different from supporting terrorism. Much different.

 

...To believe anything that this man says and actually take it seriously one needs a hard look at themselves.

 

mmm...Bush?

 

 

...if you can see any overwhelmingly positive things that W. has achieved in his life please post them here.

[pulkit]

Moore supports terrorists, Moore says "The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not “insurgents” or “terrorists” or “The Enemy.” They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow -- and they will win" about the forces who are killing Americans and trying to impose totalitarian rule on Iraq. He is entilted to his opinion even if wrong but he is still being dishonest in Fahrenheit when he pronounces his concern for American troops, he is cheering for the forces which are killing our troops, as he equates the killers with freedom-fighters. And if you think that the people who are slaughtering American soldiers, American civilians, Iraqi soldiers, and Iraqi civilians are terrorists rather than "minutemen," then it is true that Moore supports terrorists. Who's the failure now?

 

Oh my God !! You acctualy think that the Americans are being slaughtered in Iraq. If anything they are the ones doing all the slaughtering. I don't know how Mr.Bush can sleep at night, having the blood of so many people on his hands.

 

Secondly, anyone fighting in Iraq was not a terorrist. If suddenly some crazed maniac decided to attck your country won't you fight back ? The very fact that you label them terorrists is apphauling.

 

If Moore sympathised with American troops it was because they are engaged in a war that should never have been. The very decision of invading Iraq was wrong. It in no way contradicts what he said earlier.

 

Lastly, any opinion he expresses can't be right or wrong. It is just an opinion, you can't label it as "wrong".

[newbie]

A. Mr Bush.

Iraq had little to do with Afghanistan' date=' at least from a terrorfying perspective.

[/quote'] You are doing this again, I was not nor was Moore referring to Iraq in that statement, don't twist it around and use it for yourself.

 

If an American goes overseas and conducts a terrorist operation should America as a whole be repremanded? This was the reasoning behind Moore's intial statement. Fahrenheit criticiezes the fact the special operations forces didn't enter the area where bin laden was suspected of hiding until two months after the start of official operations (the time when they acknowledge the slaughter from afar has begun)...more than plenty of time for him to escape' date=' which is more than questionable seeing as he was the apparent objective. So the idiot is still Bush.

[/quote'] Notice the word If , since we know that is not the case your objection is invalid. But if it was then yes we would be reprimanded. Where is the punishment? Why haven't any other country stepped in? Why does the well respected Kofi Annan still support what we are doing overseas? Well I don't have to say it because it is a common fact.

 

You are my friend. Not everything is black and white. If your country was invaded by an oppressive power(the motivation behind the oppression may well be in your long term best interest' date=' but even in this rose colored take on the whole situation, America is still the oppressive power) would you not take up arms? Saying that people have a right to fight for their land, a right to defend/avenge themselves against an aggressor is different from supporting terrorism. Much different.

[/quote']

Taking up arms is one thing, killing everyone who disagrees with you is another. They kill all foreigners and their own people that’s not taking up arms or stopping an oppressive or invading country that’s terrorism.

 

They are not defending anything they are murdering their own people and ours, not including all the other foreigners who are trying to help Iraq become a better place just to get decapitated or bombed. No matter what the intentions; your logic is flawed.

 

Oh my God !! You acctualy think that the Americans are being slaughtered in Iraq. If anything they are the ones doing all the slaughtering. I don't know how Mr.Bush can sleep at night' date=' having the blood of so many people on his hands.

[/quote'] Hmm, notice how you only noted the death of some Americans as meaningless and in disbelief even though that was not all that was said. Since to me that doesn't look good for your character I will just leave the rest of your post alone.

[DreamLord]

Oh my God !! You acctualy think that the Americans are being slaughtered in Iraq. If anything they are the ones doing all the slaughtering. I don't know how Mr.Bush can sleep at night, having the blood of so many people on his hands.

 

Please do not generalise all our soldiers and place them in the same category of Bush. Both American and Iraqi lives are being lost over there. Lives that should not have been lost in this pointless war. The soldiers are there because they have to be, and there are more being killed over there each day. I support the soldiers, just not their reason for being there. I admit, there are some that have done stupid things over there, but there are many other soldiers there simply trying to keep the peace because they have to do their jobs.

[Thales]

Notice the word If , since we know that is not the case your objection is invalid. But if it was then yes we would[/i'] be reprimanded. Where is the punishment? Why haven't any other country stepped in? Why does the well respected Kofi Annan still support what we are doing overseas? Well I don't have to say it because it is a common fact.

 

Firstly the United Nations did not support a unilateral invasion of Iraq. Seondly have you heard of the expression 'walking a mile in another man's shoes'? If you had then you would realise that just because something hasn't happened nor will it nessercarily happen (obviously because if your born in the US your a saint who can do no wrong(not a slur against Americans, more the view that they are infallible)), it does not mean you cannot visualise what it may be like to be in somebody elses position.

 

And what country could step in? None because bar the Chinese the American's are the ONLY superpower. Half the reason having this lunatic at the helm is so dangerous.

 

Taking up arms is one thing, killing everyone who disagrees with you is another. They kill all foreigners and their own people [/i'] that’s not taking up arms or stopping an oppressive or invading country that’s terrorism. They are not defending anything they are murdering their own people and ours, not including all the other foreigners who are trying to help Iraq become a better place just to get decapitated or bombed. No matter what the intentions; your logic is flawed.

 

Well there is a grosse generalisation. Do you know these fighter's personally? Do you understand why they hate America? Is it because they don't own a TV or because they heard Bush was a meanie? Was it because the thought bin-laden was the new in thing this summer? No. It was alot more likely that they or someone the are related to or close to has been killed by an American cluster bomb, or some depleted Uranium has left them and their family deformed and impotent. Sure these are extreme examples but I am trying to provide you with some insight as to the motivation behind the legitimate resistance movement in Iraq. I don't deny there aren't terrorists there, but from those who have been captured and the method of their attacks, your own precious government has acknowledge the majority of terrorist acts in Iraq are carried out by foriegn fighters. People who flock to Iraq because it is where the US is already on the back foot after their presents from the sky failed to win hearts and minds.

 

 

Hmm, notice how you only noted the death of some Americans as meaningless and in disbelief even though that was not all that was said. Since to me that doesn't look good for your character I will just leave the rest of your post alone.

 

He didn't say it was meaningless, he merely stated it didn't amount to slaughter. The Americans would have killed ten times as many people as they have lost, even more via indirect action/inaction. Is the life of an American soldier more important, more highly valued than that of an Iraqi? If your answer is yes then you are a racist, and if your answer is no, and you acknowledge that America invaded that country, then how can you justify your unfathomable support for Bush?

[budullewraagh]

ay, newbie, you make far too many generalizations that are not true. please, read ann coulter's slanderous neoconservative book "slander".

 

<font size=4>

in other news i hate that book with a fiery passion.</font>

[pulkit]

Please do not generalise all our soldiers and place them in the same category of Bush. Both American and Iraqi lives are being lost over there. Lives that should not have been lost in this pointless war. The soldiers are there because they have to be, and there are more being killed over there each day. I support the soldiers, just not their reason for being there. I admit, there are some that have done stupid things over there, but there are many other soldiers there simply trying to keep the peace because they have to do their jobs.

 

I do not look down upon the loss of any life, American or Iraqi, they are all the same, none carries a higher weightage. Neither do I place the soldiers in the category of Bush, in fact I agree with Moore and sympathise with anyone who had to lose their life in battle when Bush decided to invade Iraq. The soldiers are there only because they were ordered to be, most probably didn't even carry hostility toward Iraq to begin with.

 

he is cheering for the forces which are killing our troops, as he equates the killers with freedom-fighters. And if you think that the people who are slaughtering American soldiers, American civilians, Iraqi soldiers, and Iraqi civilians are terrorists rather than "minutemen

 

Also the fact that newbie tends to give an impression that he thinks of Iraqi soldiers as "terorrists" completely infuriates me. The fact is that Iraq did not break out war, America did. The Iraqis did not kill anyone, they only defended. In such a case you have absolutely no right to call them terorrists. He refers to them as "killers", if anyone started the killing it was America. I hate to say this but his comments appear too racial in nature ; almost as if the life of an American if far more precious than even ten Iraqis.

 

I must once again emphasize that you can't say that Americans are being slaughtered, it is a grosse exaggeration of the truth.

[Sayonara]

Welcome to the wonderful world of being trolled, everyone.

[budullewraagh]

pulkit, i agree with you whole-heartedly. i am glad to know there is another reasonable politician here.

 

as for the troll...

*hands sayo a flask of conc peroxymonosulfuric acid*

cheers!