Can Muslims improve the image of themselves?

[Mr Skeptic]

As I understand it, only a very few Muslims are crazy killers. However, it takes only a few crazies to very badly damage their reputation. Many of their religious leaders will denounce the violence, at least publicly.

 

My suggestion would be that the peace loving Muslims start a program to provide assistance to the people hurt by the crazy violent groups. Actions, after all, speak louder than words. As a bonus, this would provide a strong incentive to discourage violence.

[iNow]

We also need to hear more of them speaking out against such violence... condemning it as non-representative of their faith.

 

After that, if they truly want to improve their images, they should become atheists.

[toastywombel]

As I understand it, only a very few Muslims are crazy killers. However, it takes only a few crazies to very badly damage their reputation. Many of their religious leaders will denounce the violence, at least publicly.

 

My suggestion would be that the peace loving Muslims start a program to provide assistance to the people hurt by the crazy violent groups. Actions, after all, speak louder than words. As a bonus, this would provide a strong incentive to discourage violence.

 

Many of the groups that the previous administration labelled as terrorists do this. Hezbollah, which for those who do not know is a fundamentalist, Islamic, party based in Lebanon. Anyway, they have helped to build schools, commerce centres, and hospitals. Hamas in Palestine is very similar. They gained much public support through community outreach programs and the funding of schools and hospitals. The one downside is both of these groups have paramilitary factions in them, but most of these factions have usually only responded to Israeli aggression. The majority of the time these groups are not the aggressors.

[Mr Skeptic]

I meant a program specifically for helping people hurt by other Muslim factions, not just their own people.

[padren]

How do "black people" help white supremacists overcome the negative reputation that "black people are all crack smoking car jacking gang members" and other stereotypes? To conflate the Taliban with say, the general population of Indonesia is about as inaccurate, considering there are over 200 million Muslims in that country and it's hardly known for terrorism.

 

It's important to look at the beholder, not just the beheld in this sort of situation. I don't think most people really view Islam as a violent terrorism-centric religion, and those that do aren't going to be swayed by a few groups protesting. If anything those people will only condemn the groups that don't. They'd see this a group helping in Indonesia and say "Why aren't them Indian Muslims doing anything about it?" as if people there, predominantly severally under-resourced somehow owe the rest of the world just because of their religion.

 

They really don't, anymore than the Vatican owes the world reparations for the actions of the IRA.

[SH3RL0CK]

What exactly is the image of muslems? Do the muslems really have a bad image in the world?

 

In the middle east and parts of Asia and Africa, they are viewed in a very positive manner, with near 100% approval ratings, I'm sure. There are about a billion muslems, and the muslem world is approximately as large as both the western world (Europe, USA, Australia, Canada, etc.) and the Chinese world (China, Taiwan, Singapore).

[iNow]

What exactly is the image of muslems? Do the muslems really have a bad image in the world?

 

Shall I quote a few of the emails which get forwarded to me several times per day from some of my relatives?

[SH3RL0CK]

Shall I quote a few of the emails which get forwarded to me several times per day from some of my relatives?

 

A small minority, no doubt. There will always be people outside the mainstream.

 

Consider http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam#Community

 

A comprehensive 2009 demographic study of 232 countries and territories reported that 23% of the global population or 1.57 billion people are Muslims.[11] ... Approximately 50 countries are Muslim-majority,[122] ...Although the Arab world is often regarded as the heartland of Islam, the majority of Muslims live in Asia and Africa.

[Sisyphus]

Islam has a negative image in much of America and Europe, that's for sure. In Europe in particular it seems to be the focus of most xenophobic/anti-immigration sentiment, with stuff like Switzerland banning minarets. In the U.S. it's less about immigration, but the Muslim=terrorist meme is possibly even more prevalent, with stuff like iNow's relatives.

 

Also, something like 12% of Americans somehow believe Barack Obama is a Muslim, so, you know, just try and unpack that.

 

Anyway, I agree that it's hardly the responsibility of some Muslim in Indonesia to befriend iNow's relatives or something, but the question might be rephrased as how Islamophobia might be mitigated in general. And I think the answer is probably just integration and moderation. In America, Catholics were once a similarly hated and feared group, but that was unsustainable given the level of integration. The average person isn't going to hate and fear a group that includes their next door neighbor who's an alright dude.

[CharonY]

Also if muslims started to help out victims of terrorist attacks they may actually appear more guilty to the public. If they are not in any way connected to terrorists, why should they make amends?

[Phi for All]

I don't think it would make muslims look guilty to make reparations to victims of Islamic terrorism, especially if it gives muslims a humanitarian name to go with the faces. We sometimes fear nameless strangers so it would go a long way to know that Hasan is a good and beautiful person who wants to help fix what some extremists from his religion have broken. It's easy to fear "that muslim guy" and harder to fear "Hasan the plumber from Toledo who just wants to help".

 

I think a better use of those resources would be encouraging muslim governments to remove the ability of jihadists to work within those countries. Diplomacy and economics are the only way to fight terrorism, since we've proven waging war on terrorists costs insane amounts of lives and money and in the end just makes more terrorists.

[Sisyphus]

An Islamic charity that gave aid to victims of Islamic terrorism might be good for PR, but they shouldn't call it "reparations."

[Phi for All]

An Islamic charity that gave aid to victims of Islamic terrorism might be good for PR, but they shouldn't call it "reparations."

Good point. "Reparations" does have a criminal/victim aspect to it.

[SH3RL0CK]

Good point. "Reparations" does have a criminal/victim aspect to it.

 

Who said anything about "reparations"? I do think a charity to assist victims of terrorists activities would be good PR and would go a long way to help their image in the small part of the world called the west. Certainly some muslems (like Saudi Arabia) could afford it,although I'll grant most of the muslem world is quite poor and struggle to even feed themselves.

[Phi for All]

I don't think it would make muslims look guilty to make reparations to victims of Islamic terrorism, especially if it gives muslims a humanitarian name to go with the faces.

 

An Islamic charity that gave aid to victims of Islamic terrorism might be good for PR, but they shouldn't call it "reparations."

 

Who said anything about "reparations"?

Mea culpa.

[Mr Skeptic]

Islam has a negative image in much of America and Europe, ... with stuff like Switzerland banning minarets

 

Yeah, that thread about banning minarets in Switzerland of all places is what got me thinking about that.

 

Anyway, I agree that it's hardly the responsibility of some Muslim in Indonesia to befriend iNow's relatives or something, but the question might be rephrased as how Islamophobia might be mitigated in general. And I think the answer is probably just integration and moderation. In America, Catholics were once a similarly hated and feared group, but that was unsustainable given the level of integration. The average person isn't going to hate and fear a group that includes their next door neighbor who's an alright dude.

 

Also if muslims started to help out victims of terrorist attacks they may actually appear more guilty to the public. If they are not in any way connected to terrorists, why should they make amends?

 

 

They definitely shouldn't let it appear as reparations or as making amends -- it could be done as a charity. And if possible should include volunteer work instead of material aid, as as Sisyphus suggested, that would help them be integrated into these other societies. Though you might be right, that they would be better off helping out with something like natural disasters instead or as well.

 

There is of course two sides of the problem. One is the fear and even hatred people have of Muslims, which is largely without cause (or with cause but directed at the wrong Muslims). Which can lead to hate crimes and hate legislation against Muslims (probably innocent ones). This doesn't help our image in the Muslim communities, to be hated for no reason or false reasons. And such will probably increase recruitment for the more radical groups. Seeing Muslims doing good things should definitely help with that.

 

On the other side, even passive acceptance of terrorist attacks, or even denouncing with a wink wink nudge nudge attitude, certainly doesn't help. And that is actually very easy to do; if you doubt that you can see how US churches react to things like bombing abortion clinics. Sure, many of them may denounce it without reservation, but you also see in other churches plenty of sympathy for the perpetrators. Here is really where helping actual terrorist victims will help, as it would show unquestionably that they do not support these actions.

[CharonY]

Though I am pretty sure that such a publicity stunt can easily backfire. In the worst case it will be seen as an admission of guilt (those terrorist are indeed part of our community, sorry about that). And even if it is not the case it could be seen as, well, a publicity stunt, especially if it was conducted by an islamic organization.

It would be better if they created a neutral help fund for whatever, earthquakes, crime victims and so on rather on concentrating on terrorists. I am pretty sure that it will only reinforce the already strong associations.

[foodchain]

I think it’s a two part saga in terms of improving relations in regards to Muslims. First it’s that reference of Muslim as a catch all for a whole lot of variation. It’s like just saying Europeans, or Christians, to denote some amount of people as all being the same. I won’t say it’s mildly racist, but in all reality some Muslims can technically be called Semites, and what is a Persian or an Arab, and are they all Muslim?

 

Now while I will agree that the conservative nature in some Muslim areas seems to be insurmountable currently in regards to establishing a more multicultural, and or liberal society, it does not have to be that way always just as western civilization is not just Victorian era England if that makes sense, or in short things can change.

 

Basically it won’t help for any Muslim culture to adapt if the stereotypes in other cultures are not relaxed, and to add that fear, hatred, bias or what not ultimately I think only serves to help “terrorists” in all reality.

[bascule]

Muslims could improve their self-image if they would unilaterally come out against and reject radical Islamicism, espousing the core tenants of Islam: PEACE.

 

Until then... no, Muslims cannot improve their self-image, because the radical contingent dominates world affairs.

 

Note this applies equally well to chickenhawk Christians who apparently do not follow the principle of peace espoused by their central deity, Jesus Christ.

[padren]

I honestly think it's the wrong approach. The issue of terrorism is global and pervasive, and charities supporting the victims of terrorism should also be global... not Muslim based or based on any other definable subsection of humanity. I really think the problem stems from two main factors:

 

1) Some Islamic societies that condemn radical Islam/terrorism are often (legitimately) criticized for other social issues, such as respect of individual freedom and the rights of women. While those criticisms are fair, it also makes it easy to conflate the two.

 

2) Many people looking at Muslim cultures are frankly too lazy or judgmental and have already made up their minds. It seems that even if enough Muslims were able to do enough to convince bigots that they aren't their enemy, it doesn't really address the underlying issue of bigotry in the first place.

 

3) From what I can tell at least, while the denouncing of 9/11 and other terrorist attacks seems to be the norm there are places that get stickier. The Palestinian / Israeli conflict is an example where many prominent Muslims sympathize with the Palestinians to the point of trying to frame all actions as anything but Terrorism. No matter how badly the UK did things in Northern Ireland (and not saying they did - not opening that debate either way) it is unequivocal that the IRA resorted to Terrorism. My point being: No matter what any group in Ireland did to promote the peace, if that group was unwilling to acknowledge that the IRA tactics were Terrorism they wouldn't have any credibility.

 

 

In summary, I really don't think Muslims should worry about improving their image - they should (with the rest of us) worry about improving their lives, and the lives of everyone else on this rock. The charity you mention is a good idea - but it should be organized by across all religious and ethnic lines, and not tied to any subset.

[CaptainPanic]

Why do you ask for an effort by the non-violent Muslims when they are in fact victims who are being stereotyped?

 

They find themselves in a situation where they are "the terrorists": People who disguise themselves as ordinary citizens only to attack the good guys at their weakest point... and the Westerner thinks of himself (obviously) as the good guy.

 

Ten years ago, many people felt that Muslims have to integrate. Then some attacks happened, and people started to mistrust Muslims. And through false generalizations (majority is peaceful, and does not hate the Western countries) this is now turning into hate.

 

And you can't turn around hate by a few words of peace.

 

I fear that any improvements have to come from people in Western counties... it's those people who invented the stereotypes, so they have to change them.

 

I do my part in this - simply by having Muslim friends.

[foodchain]

Why do you ask for an effort by the non-violent Muslims when they are in fact victims who are being stereotyped?

 

They find themselves in a situation where they are "the terrorists": People who disguise themselves as ordinary citizens only to attack the good guys at their weakest point... and the Westerner thinks of himself (obviously) as the good guy.

 

Ten years ago, many people felt that Muslims have to integrate. Then some attacks happened, and people started to mistrust Muslims. And through false generalizations (majority is peaceful, and does not hate the Western countries) this is now turning into hate.

 

And you can't turn around hate by a few words of peace.

 

I fear that any improvements have to come from people in Western counties... it's those people who invented the stereotypes, so they have to change them.

 

I do my part in this - simply by having Muslim friends.

 

 

I have to agree and as much was the center or my first post on the topic.

 

I think many cultural mechanisms exist here, along with psychological, political, social, economical, geographical, heck biological if you want that are poorly understood in many ways. I think this lack of understanding pertains from the everyday person all the way up to national and international political actions based on such. I think this pertains on both sides, and I also fear that such could actually lead to a far worse situation then currently exists.

 

I also think fear as desired by terrorism is much to blame for recent actions, like the preemptive war in Iraq which was framed with horrible events.

 

I also do not think a quick fix exists to remedy such a situation.

 

I mean for instance what if the Iraq war chest was spent on alternative means of energy rather then fossil fuels. That much money spent in such a direction could have had far more a beneficial impact. It’s not just that point, but what are we to do militarily, invade any nation that has a predominant Muslim population and begin a siege in all reality with the hopes of permanently altering the minds of a "Muslim populous" which in itself seems almost crazy if you critically think about that.

 

Everything has a price tag and this applies for our current foe, and I feel that spending the Iraq War chest on alternative energy could have had a far better impact by taking that money away from Oil rich nations. I think this in turn would make those nations take action against religious extremists as much as anything else we have done to date would have. You then have to deal with the political reality of America truly going green, but terrorism is a global problem that no nation really wants to suffer, and a political framework already exists with popular support internationally for a more environmentally sound way of life.

 

Plus a "Muslim population" would not have had to been a victim of war, as obviously Iraq was not or is not should I say, a nation of nothing but "terrorists".

 

The economic side of the cold war was just as potent as anything else as the former USSR eventually collapsed economically, and I should say America as a nation is suffering from economic troubles itself right now.

[ajb]

Qur'an (3:56)

YUSUFALI: "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

PICKTHAL: As for those who disbelieve I shall chastise them with a heavy chastisement in the world and the Hereafter; and they will have no helpers.

SHAKIR: Then as to those who disbelieve, I will chastise them with severe chastisement in this world and the hereafter, and they shall have no helpers.

 

Qur'an (3:151)

YUSUFALI: Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!

PICKTHAL: We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve because they ascribe unto Allah partners, for which no warrant hath been revealed. Their habitation is the Fire, and hapless the abode of the wrong-doers.

SHAKIR: We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust.

 

Qur'an (4:76)

YUSUFALI: Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan.

PICKTHAL: Those who believe do battle for the cause of Allah; and those who disbelieve do battle for the cause of idols. So fight the minions of the devil. Lo! the devil's strategy is ever weak.

SHAKIR: Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Shaitan; surely the strategy of the Shaitan is weak.

 

Do I need to quote any more?

 

You should also look up the life of Muhammed, the perfect Muslim ever to have lived.

[insane_alien]

ajb, there are similar passages in the bible, torah and well, pretty much any and every holy book there is.

 

i know a few muslims(about 10) precisely none of them are violent and think that non-belivers should be punished. they all seem to have got the message 'peace to all mankind' from the qur'an. and many of them are very religious to the extent that half of them have taken part in the hajj pilgramage. some more than once.

 

as with all religions however, there are a few select nutjobs who draw attention to themselves by being complete prats. it happens in every group of people. i'm of the belief that most muslims are genuinely nice people and that it's only a minority that are being pricks.

[ajb]

ajb, there are similar passages in the bible, torah and well, pretty much any and every holy book there is.

 

Not relevant.

 

I made no claim that the Qur'an was the only such book. The Torah and the old Testament make similar vile statements.

 

i know a few muslims(about 10) precisely none of them are violent and think that non-belivers should be punished.

 

Wow, you ask them. Seems to be politically incorrect to ask what they think of us kafir.