Hmmm...just thinking aloud

[Taktiq]

Ok, so I'm just finishing my first semester in college and I was just screwing around on google and decided to see what sorts of jobs a sociology degree could get me. Needless to say, I was unimpressed.

 

Now while I've always enjoyed the thought of doing research like Wade Davis and others, I've always found fields such as astronomy fascinating. The problem with that is I'm terrible/terrified of math, but I'm finding that unlike when I was in high school 15 years ago I'm not doing so bad.

 

I'm almost 34, could I try for a degree in that? Would I be wasting my time? If not that, what interesting things could I use a sociology degree for (beyond social work...I don't want to graduate only to end up doing what I'm trying to get out of now)? Where could it lead to?

 

Should I have just gone to clown college after all?

[iNow]

Most of what you learn you learn once you start your job. Use your sociology degree to learn how to learn, and how to improve the groups around you.

 

Finding a job is more about WHO you know than it is about WHAT you know, so use your degree as a chance to learn how to learn. The other pieces of life's puzzle shape themselves on their own. That's my even prime number of cents, anyway.

[Taktiq]

...nm

Edited December 17, 2009 by Taktiq
the bunny made no sense...

[ajb]

I'm almost 34, could I try for a degree in that? Would I be wasting my time?

 

To be a professional astronomer you would need to do the following

 

1) Get a good degree in astronomy, physics, mathematics or something similar.

2) Possibly get an MSc in astronomy, physics, mathematics or something similar. You may be able to skip this stage and go on to 3)

3) Get a PhD in astronomy or something very similar.

4) Find 3 or 4 postdoc positions.

5) Take up permanent position as member of staff at a university.

 

So, a good degree that 3-4 years, MSc 1 year, Phd 3-4, postdocs each last 2 years or so, you will need to do a couple at least, then finally if your lucky a permanent job.

 

I think you could call yourself professional at the postdoc stage. But you get an idea of what is really involved.

[CharonY]

Wait a tick, aren't you in the UK? AFAIK there you also have to become PI as opposed to being postdoc before you can even begin to dream of a permanent position. Too long of postdocing is, in most systems, a career killer. Also, of course, this only applies to a career in academia. One should not postdoc (in academia) if one wants to have a career outside.

 

Quoted for truth:

Finding a job is more about WHO you know than it is about WHAT you know' date=' so use your degree as a chance to learn how to learn. [/quote']

Edited December 17, 2009 by CharonY

[Taktiq]

Ooook...well anyway, as i said I was just thinking aloud. The reality is I've been working in jobs that deal with social problems already, and I'm burnt out so, I figured I'd finally go to school, get some education and move on to something that's worthwhile (to me, at least).

 

The problem I suppose is I still don't know what I want to do when I grow up.

[ajb]

Wait a tick, aren't you in the UK? AFAIK there you also have to become PI as opposed to being postdoc before you can even begin to dream of a permanent position.

 

There are postdoctoral positions here in the UK. Also, one will have to look outside the UK also for positions. After that one would want a reader or lecturer position if staying in the UK.

 

Of course most people with a degree in astronomy do not become astronomers. I expect that to also be true of people with a PhD in astronomy. Far too few academic openings.

[Taktiq]

Of course most people with a degree in astronomy do not become astronomers. I expect that to also be true of people with a PhD in astronomy. Far too few academic openings.

 

Why is that?

[ajb]

Generically, there is an over training of people. Right now I am finding it difficult to find a postdoc position. Not quite time to give up yet.

[Royston]

Now while I've always enjoyed the thought of doing research like Wade Davis and others, I've always found fields such as astronomy fascinating. The problem with that is I'm terrible/terrified of math, but I'm finding that unlike when I was in high school 15 years ago I'm not doing so bad.

 

I turned 33 a few months ago, and have two years of my degree (which I've been studying part time) to go. The way I'm tackling my education and career path, is studying towards a degree in physics, but with a concentration on astronomy i.e my final year (the next two years) will be courses solely on GR, astrophysics and astronomy, plus a course on EM (electromagnetism.)

 

This way, I have a physics degree on paper, which is more flexible for work in the future, but also gives me the opportunity to apply for an MSc at Sussex in cosmology (my primary interest). I may even do an extra year on QM before this, as (perhaps suprising to some) QM is a heavy component in cosmology.

 

Luckily for me, I found out recently a Phd student in physics at Sussex, has moved next door to my sister (see iNow's post) so needless to say I'll be visiting my sister more frequently in the future. I also have a friend who has been helping in geological research at the same Uni, so I'll be getting in contact with him in the new year...try and get some contacts, advice et.c

 

As for maths, well I've got over the main hurdle degree wise i.e passed my higher applied maths exam this year, found out a few days ago, but I do need to practice more, as cosmology is maths intensive.

 

With any path in science, it's a case of you get what you're given once you've finished your education, so keep your options open. You may find a career that's not scientifically focused, but demands those types of skills.

 

Not sure if any of that is any use to you, but I was in a very similar situation to you a few years ago.

[CharonY]

There are postdoctoral positions here in the UK. Also, one will have to look outside the UK also for positions. After that one would want a reader or lecturer position if staying in the UK.

 

That is what I meant. While you often need postdocing, you do not go from there to a permanent position but need to become the equivalent of a PI, either as reader or lecturer (I think the US-equivalent would be assistant or associate profs). And from there (which is a major transition) you can start building a career towards a permanent position. Unless in the UK the reader or lecturer position are already tenured, which I kind of doubt. Also note that as a rule of thumb that depending on the field there is an optimumt time for postdocing (often around 2x2 years) after which your value gradually declines. Also fro industrial positions time in academia reduces your chances.

One should keep in mind that postdocing is not a goal in the career, or even a milestone, but rather a waiting loop before one can get a real position. It is crucial not to remain in the loop for too long.

[ajb]

One should keep in mind that postdocing is not a goal in the career, or even a milestone, but rather a waiting loop before one can get a real position.

 

I see it as the next step. Without doing a postdoc or two a better position in accademia is unlikley to present itself.

 

In the same way I saw getting my PhD and a preprint on the arXiv, which I must work on further with a veiw to publication.

[CharonY]

The point is that during the postdoc you have to work towards a faculty position (if that is where you want to end up) and take the necessary steps instead of "just" doing what is in your postdoc work contract. Even if you are extremely productive, unless you get regular papers in Nature and Science, the paper output will not secure you a job. It is more essential to show sufficient productivity and then leverage it to network like a champ. In the end, a position will never present itself, but you will have to mold yourself into the fit for the desired faculty position.

What I am trying to say is that due to the fierce competition in academia, your plans have to be laid out very carefully, going from postdoc to postdoc without leveraging each position towards the goal has the inherent danger of ending up in the postdoc loop. And I have seen enough people losing there, or on the next step (i.e. tenure denied).

[ajb]

Journal of physics A is what I was thinking of submitting it to, rather than Nature. But anyway...

 

In relation to the opening question I just wanted Taktiq to realise the time and effort needed to become a profesional astronomer. Not that it should stop him doing this.