andy Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Are rats in Britain still found with the plague? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodhound Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 what makes u think that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Yes, just like everywhere else in the world. Afaik there has been one death from plague in Britain in the past 10 years (at least), and that was from a rat bite. Plague kills around 1000 people each year world-wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 At least it doesn't kill 2/3 of the earth's population. Some people believe that the original Black Plague was actually an Ebola-type virus. (in a really old New Scientist) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atinymonkey Posted July 21, 2004 Share Posted July 21, 2004 I remember the theory. The bacterium that causes bubonic plague, Yersinia pestis, was attributed to the Black Plague in the 19th century. It produces a hemorrhagic fever similar to Ebola ( as recently happened during an outbreak in Madagascar). It was proposed that the transmission rate and effectiveness was far to high for rat fleas to be the carrier, and as the symptoms were similar to an Ebola variant the evidence could equally fit Ebola. Apart from the circumstantial physical similarities, the gene records provide some physical evidence. Between 10% and 15% of Europeans exhibit a mutation in the CCR5 gene product, spotted during HIV research ( The HIV virus enters via the CCR5 gene product, and the modification appears to provide some protection from infection). This mutation could have been the results of natural selection that occurred via a large scale Ebola infection, such as the Plague. But it could be a number of other events, the use of the gene record is still fresh and quite open to interpretation. I haven't heard much else about the theory, it went quiet. I suspect there isn't the interest or resource within Britain to look deeper into it, the physical evidence is hard to come by (plague victims were burned or buried in lime so Archeologists can't exhume anything for study). It certainly seems more substantial than a 19 century diagnosis, but could just as well be fortune hunting science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted July 21, 2004 Author Share Posted July 21, 2004 what makes u think that? Just wanted to know - I'm doing this sort of thing in History at the moment so it will be quite useful in any projects I have to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted November 4, 2004 Author Share Posted November 4, 2004 I was told that a few years ago, a person got the plague in Cornwall, and three people in Essex- is this true? and I'm studying the Black Death for GCSE history at the moment, but all the information about it seems to be going in one ear and out the other as I believe the haemmorhagic fever theory on the Black Death and not that is was spread by flea bites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glider Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 I heard that the biggest spreader of plague wasn't rats (or rat fleas), it was in fact people. Wherever an outbreak occurred, people would migrate away from the site out of fear, including those who had already been exposed, and it was this that accounted for the rapid spread throughout Europe. An outbreak would occur in a town. People would panic and migrate to stay with friends/relative in other towns, often taking the plague with them and passing it on to the local population. Outbreaks would occur in the new towns and people would panic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coquina Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Was the flea still the intermediate host or was it spread directly from person to person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glider Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Good question. I know that plague is easily transmissable person to person in close proximity, but I don't doubt that many of the people carried fleas with them also. I'm guessing, but as fleas are quite specific, e.g. dog fleas don't like people, nor do rat fleas and won't live on them for long unless there is a paucity of rats (which is unlikely, even today), it seems most probable that the primary mechanism of transmission was close contact between infected migrants and the people of the towns they migrated to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artorius Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I heard that the biggest spreader of plague wasn't rats (or rat fleas), it was in fact people. Wherever an outbreak occurred, people would migrate away from the site out of fear, including those who had already been exposedyes your correct...well partly....well the human carrier part....however they acted more as local transport,giviing the flea's a free ride into the next area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coquina Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 The fleas leave the body as soon as it dies. My cat caught a rabbit and I rescued it - a few minutes later, it gave a gasp and died. Within seconds, fleas were crawling out of its fur all over my hands - it was totally gross. I guess the heart has to be pumping for them to feed. I do know that cat or dog fleas will bite some people before they bite others. They love the taste of my blood. My parents had cats and went on vacation - they boarded the cats, but I was supposed to go in every few days and check on the house. I was wearing white slacks and I looked down and there were little black specs on them, and they were moving. I sprayed my pants legs, but within a few minutes, I felt that I was being eaten alive. They had gotten under my clothes and were chewing away - especially around the waistband of my clothes. Fleas may prefer a particular species, but they'll apparantly feed on anything warm blooded if push comes to shove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaKiri Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 yes your correct...well partly....well the human carrier part....however they acted more as local transport,giviing the flea's a free ride into the next area. Are you saying the plague isn't an infectious disease? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artorius Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 which one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaKiri Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 It's a bit of a circular question, because you've ignored the bolded part of the post. Good question. I know that plague is easily transmissable person to person in close proximity[/b'], but I don't doubt that many of the people carried fleas with them also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artorius Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 no your question jakiri was not specific.... The 3 forms of the black death were transmitted in two completely seperates ways.. Bubonic and septicemic were solely transmitted to humans by fleas....bites!! hence me saying the humans carried the fleas to new areas. Pneumonic plague was transmitted through the air if the victim coughed and you breathed in the droplets... you see now why i asked...which one.... One could safely touch and help a plague victim without fear of infection...just run like hell if they cough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecoli Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 At least it doesn't kill 2/3 of the earth's population. Actually it killed about 1/4 of europe's population, not 2/3 of the earth. http://me.essortment.com/bubonicplague_rvdr.htm I heard somewhere that people in europe that are known to be resistant to the bubonic plague also have immunities to AIDs, anyone else hear this, or did I imagine it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atinymonkey Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 A mutation in the CCR5 gene product. Read my post (No. 5) which has the information you are referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecoli Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 oops, sorry I must have missed it, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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