Avatar, the thread

[AngryTurtle]

As with pretty much everyone else in the universe I watched Avatar the movie, going in I knew that most of the movie I would spend shutting off my brain to James Cameron repeatedly socking science right in the groin. What I didn't expect was a near carbon copy of the script of pocahontas with millions of dollars worth of cgi facelifts done to the indians and a "everyone lived happily ever after" ending slapped on for good measure.

 

I thought it would be fun to make a thread dedicated to Avatar and "If i was the director" changes in the plot or just blatant scientific blunders or grievances you have. If you loved it go ahead, I understand the movie wasn't designed for us nerds and was supposed to just be a thrill ride but who cares.

 

Major Grievances:

-Na'vi are indians + 3 feet + tail - finger, the horses hammerhead rhinos dog/wolves dragons and giant jaguar are all mock up copies of stuff that exists on earth already and yet he apparently made it from scratch and is a creative genius. (I mean it was a same gravity more or less same atmospheric density planet for god sake)

-Humans forgot how to use Missiles and decided low altitude civilian crafts ferrying in palettes of plastic explosives is an awesome idea.

-Everything in the future is apparently designed with giant, house-window strength, glass panes right in front of the pilot that would make any flashing weakspot N64 boss green with envy.

-Mechs use knives... enough said.

 

Favorite LoL point:

-He totally defiled that main character chick, before he knew their tree could poof him into his blue guy body, even though they can only have one mate and that pretty much stripped her of any importance when he left for practical purposes.

 

How would I redo the plot?

-The Humans would show up like normal

-Humans would send the avatar guys into the blue tribe like normal but unknowingly too the main character would have purposely infected the avatars with a bio-engineered disease to subtly get rid of them (new age small pox blankets anyone?)

-Plot advances like normal with love story developing and learning to be a native american... i mean Na'vi montage

-When the Humans arrive at the tree to bulldoze it and all that shinanigans goes down it gathers the attention of a PETA type humanitarian militant group to come help the Na'vi against the corporation humans (arming them and rudimentary training on how to use RPGs and shit much like the United States helped the Mushahadeen against the Soviet Union by supplying them with stingers and such)

-Battle breaks out and the Corp humans can't use missiles, not cause they are retarded but rather because the militia humans assaulted their satellites used to guide them and the blue guys can actually realistically kill off the attacking force armed with a good bit of crappy RPGs and Guns instead of that "i blew up a helicopter with my spear" bullshit (I mean **** we might as well take advantage of the fact they look exactly like humans) shouldn't be hard one future M60 killed like 10000 dudes

-Battle is won and as the Blue dudes sweep in to celebrate their hard fought victory the plan that was set in motion by the militia unfolds and they were actually just a puppet organization of another Mining Corporation that wanted to get their hands on the planets minerals without getting their hands dirty attacking another company and it dawns on the Na'vi that the cruel humans they thought aided them in ousting the badguy humans actually just played them like a flute.

-Main character avatar guy realizes this when meeting with the former militia leader who now stands along side the new mining leader head honcho and goes into an emotion fit and gets gunned down and back up main character blue chick runs over to cry on his shoulder so everyone can be sad, maybe slap a 300 style martyr death to show him whos boss before getting turned into ribbons herself.

 

I think thatd be better than "and then the cowboys lost and the indians lived happily ever after"

 

 

 

 

 

I know you have a rant of your own and i'd love to hear all of its comical juicyness! POST IT

[Pangloss]

I know a certain somebody who needs to paste his Facebook rant into this thread. I'm ready to rant about self-loathing liberals again but I need some cover cuz I'm still smarting after our WALL-E discussion a couple years ago! (lol)

[bascule]

Avatar is a groundbreaking film in terms of it seamlessly stitching human actors and CG characters is a realistic 3D world.

 

As for the story, meh. As has been repeated over and over it's a derivative blend of Fern Gully and Dances With Wolves. But you're distracted by the absurd CG the whole time, so it really doesn't matter how much the story sucks.

 

All that said, I've seen it twice now, once in IMAX 3D and once in Real D. Definitely worth going to.

Edited December 30, 2009 by bascule
Consecutive posts merged.

[AngryTurtle]

It really made me sad because I saw an interview before hand where they were talking about how much science went into making avatar and what I didnt realize is they're totally right, craploads of time were spend making it scientifically correct... and by science I mean biology... and only biology. The animals running around are gorgeous and biologically accurate but would it ****ing kill them to make a hand wavy argument to explain all the rest of the nonsensical stuff that happened, if they hired 1 Engineer/Physicist/Chemist for every 10 Biologist this movie would have made me blow a wad in my pants.

 

Personally and i think i'm about to blow some minds. Mel Gibson should have directed this movie. Hear me out

 

He did Braveheart, outnumbered and outgunned soldiers rise up to defeat a larger force. Apocalypto indigenous population displayed outrageously well and characters developed superbly in a seemingly foreign land without the use of english. Passion of big JC movie all about the cruelty of humans and goods perseverance through blah blah civil unjustice blah blah. all were done excellently and if you throw all that shit together and put some sci-fi whip cream on top thatd be avatar on crack.

[Pangloss]

I actually liked Apocalypto, FWIW. But then I liked his Passion movie as well, so what do I know.

 

As for the story, meh. As has been repeated over and over it's a derivative blend of Fern Gully and Dances With Wolves. But you're distracted by the absurd CG the whole time, so it really doesn't matter how much the story sucks.

 

A friend of mine cited Disney's Pocahontas, right down to details like the native chick walking the American soldier (explorer) through the woods touching plants that light up (or something).

[ydoaPs]

I don't quite remember Pocahontas, but it really is a sci-fi version of Dances with Wolves with giant feline smurfs.

[ecoli]

Here's an interesting article my friend showed me about how Avatar is just a sci-fi version of the "white guilt fantasy" story.

 

http://io9.com/5422666/when-will-white-people-stop-making-movies-like-avatar

 

I'm not one try and project race issues into everything I see, but I think this review is spot on.

[Pangloss]

White guilt fantasy is a good name for it. It's certainly a common theme these days.

 

That was interesting how he saw it as just another way for white people to make the story about them.

[ParanoiA]

White guilt fantasy is a good name for it. It's certainly a common theme these days.

 

That was interesting how he saw it as just another way for white people to make the story about them.

 

Funny, this is exactly how I've seen this my whole life. It's dimmed enlightenment. The gloriously foolish display of pretending as if we are no longer prejudice as we explore how our violence was wrong, and then completely miss our own point as we reaffirm our apparent superiority by condescendingly assuming leadership roles and saving them.

 

The message has always been clear to me: We were wrong for oppressing you with violence, but we weren't wrong about how stupid we think you are - we just know it's not your fault. You are equally morally relevent, but we're still obviously much smarter and more capable and will now handle you with care. Follow me, please.

 

That's what we've been saying with film and literature for as long as I can remember. Well, the mainstream stuff anyway...

 

I was going to trash Avatar for its utter lack of depth in every category except color, but that's already been done from what I can tell. A visually astonishing experience, I've seen it twice now. With an actual story, with actual characters it could be a great movie too.

[AngryTurtle]

The white guild fantasy thing was remarkable, the leadership element wasn't so much present in district 9 where wikus was still clumsy and foolish even with his new found aspect of bravery, but the leadership and intelligence was given to an alien. One thing that did surprise me during the movie was that they seem to neglect how hateful people are. In every conflict since the dawn of time both sides have given derogatory names for each other, especially in the face of large cultural differences. The fact they called them "natives" and "the Na'vi" and every once in a while savage was thrown down for emphasis really left a niche unfilled in the movie that district 9's "prawn" filled well.

 

That said what would be incredible, but would never happen in a million years is they should open up Avatar to tribute remakes without the 20 year grace period. Just offer Spielberg or someone a chance to give it their own spin, This movie could have done so much and it seems to have gotten wasted... oh well.

[Moontanman]

Did anyone else notice the vertebrate animals on the planet had six limbs but the humanoids only had four? I loved much of the movie due to the description of a low gravity high air pressure world.

 

I'm not sure how accurate it was biologically but it was interesting. Much of the life seemed to be taken from ocean creatures. Tube worm type creatures, floating and bio-luminescent creatures were take offs of ocean life and the idea that high pressure atmosphere might support plankton, creatures that feed on plankton, and drifting creatures. The story line was indeed fern-gully/dances with wolves/Pocahontas as someone mentioned. Those white bastards must feel really guilty about what they did to my people!

 

I liked the movie a lot, it was easy to suspend disbelief and go with it. the technology will bring us many more movies that would normally be too expensive to make or time consuming or both.

 

I expect lots of porn to be forth coming wit this sort of CGI, Porn is a huge part of the INTERNET and I'm betting this will be the case with this sort of super realistic CGI.

[The Bear's Key]

I liked the movie and the story. And I've never seen Pocahontas or Dances with Wolves, and really don't care to. But I very much doubt it's the same tale, judging from the major details you seem to have overlooked so far. Perhaps you've made those same kind of errors in your movie comparisons?

 

I knew that most of the movie I would spend shutting off my brain to James Cameron repeatedly socking science right in the groin.

Not everyone agrees.

 

The Science of Avatar (Part II) In there is a link to Part I.

 

Also, I think he put hard thought and work into fitting the science accurately enough, considering the film's setting.

 

 

-Humans forgot how to use Missiles and decided low altitude civilian crafts ferrying in palettes of plastic explosives is an awesome idea.

Maybe it wasn't clear in the movie, so here: read a script...

 

http://sfy.ru/?script=avatar

 

They couldn't use weapons of mass destruction.

 

The charter allows them to exploit the resources of planets, moons, asteroids... whatever they find... as long as they follow the International Space Resources Treaty, and the other treaties which prohibit weapons of mass destruction and limit military power in space.

I think missiles qualify.

 

 

-Everything in the future is apparently designed with giant, house-window strength, glass panes right in front of the pilot that would make any flashing weakspot N64 boss green with envy.

No, the only things designed as such is equipment on a mission that was supposed to be focused on bridging the gap between the two cultures. And would you foot the expense to send the big stuff from Earth to Pandora, as insurance vs bows & arrows people?

 

Mission planning's often a lot more complex/involved than at first would seem.

 

 

I think thatd be better than "and then the cowboys lost and the indians lived happily ever after"

Cowboys weren't in search of an unobtanium equivalent, and didn't have vastly superior defensive capabilities vs indian weapons -- nor a colonel leading them who's dismissive of attempts to solve the conflicts.

 

 

Personally and i think i'm about to blow some minds. Mel Gibson should have directed this movie. Hear me out

 

He did Braveheart, outnumbered and outgunned soldiers rise up to defeat a larger force.

With one teeeeeny difference: the larger force didn't have post-21st century technology, flying overhead in safety while raining down explosive hell -- unlike anything seen or fathomed by that entire world.

 

Surely if battling against them, Mel Gibson's face paint would've just become a puddle on the ground along with his face. Then everyone's jaw would drop (permenantly in disbelief), followed by the NORMALLY bravehearted group "flying" to the woods and hills in utter fright/madness.

 

Apocalypto indigenous population displayed outrageously well...

Except that instead of the fallacy (by the clueless) depicting the indians as unfailingly peaceful and wise, his equally naïve fallacy goes the complete opposite and depicts their lot as unfailingly heinous and cruel

 

On that note, maybe South Park's depictions of Mel Gibson were "spot on"?

 

 

Here's an interesting article my friend showed me about how Avatar is just a sci-fi version of the "white guilt fantasy" story.

 

http://io9.com/5422666/when-will-white-people-stop-making-movies-like-avatar

 

I'm not one try and project race issues into everything I see, but I think this review is spot on.

Do you mean about there supposedly being a white guilt fantasy injected into stories?

 

Or just the general points made throughout the article?

 

Like the one hinting there's a debate between people over whether Avatar is racist. I find that to be reflective of how few people actually know what racism is.

 

But the article does claim it's a film about race.

 

I disagree.

 

The film is more about difference of culture and technology backgrounds, and how a few rotten eggs often play the variables so the result is to steal the less technical people's resources (after killing loads of them) without spurring an outcry from the more good-inclined population back home.

 

It's why the supervisor edited reports back to home with "ironfisted" censorship. Thus the film also shows how trickery is used by some in power to commit atrocities in the name of a supposed good.

 

Also how it comes to be possible that something new of beauty -- and unexplored possibilities -- is destroyed.

 

The movie's hint would be about that clueless nature of such "leaders" in charge of important developments.

 

Thus it's less about race, and more about superiority: "I can disrespect you and smash or take any of your stuff, because I'm bigger."

 

It's about going into someone's home -- even if it's outside and has no brick and mortar -- and breaking everything that's very important and sentimental to them.

 

Your article's inaccurate a bit, yet too, it's possible others misinterpret it -- looking at it with resentment-colored glasses. For instance, the article's not claiming the entire scenario's wrong, only that not enough actors who play the heroes are of the same race as the endangered village's. But then protesters might say, "of course, a person of race rises to triumph against the evil white man. How racist."

 

The movie can just make everyone be the same race, however that wouldn't be any more or realistic. In fact, it'd be less realistic if most films did that. Remember the few rotten eggs who often play the variables for atrocities to be tolerated/downplayed? It's easier for such people if our "enemy" looks or speaks differently....and if both, jackpot!

 

Right in the thread is a perfect example. In Braveheart, it's Scottish whites fighting vs oppression by English whites.

 

Another great example is the film Terminator -- ironically, by Cameron -- where it's machines of highly superior capabilities exterminating the non-machines. Also ironically, the day's saved by a machine in Terminator 2.

 

Why is the hero often the same "race" as the oppressors? Because they know the enemy -- a precious advantage. Like someone in G.I. Joe once told us: "knowing is half the battle".

 

The message in Cameron's film is similar to a liberal value found in another story: With great power comes great responsibility. Spidey and other comic heroes would make a magnificent fortune using their far superior powers to build wealth. Instead, Spidey's just about poor.

 

Because yes, stories tend to favor liberal ideals: hard work, study, cultural respect, helping those in need -- especially when defenseless against more powerful takers.

 

Yet it's hard to maybe really believe so....can you name that movie where the greedy banker wins the day against those struggling to pay the mortgage? Or where the superior-enhanced person took the me-me-me aproach to life (encouraged to us by "conservatives"), and so gaining enduring fulfillment? Usually those don't make a great story -- or even ones people can relate to -- do they?

 

 

 

White guilt fantasy is a good name for it. It's certainly a common theme these days.

Generally, I consider it a mistake and useless trying to feel guilty about past deeds that we from the present had nothing to do with. The people trying to make us feel guilty are probably either clueless or don't like to think very much.

 

However, the guilt from one's steps and/or conveniences knowingly helping to feed that cycle is a different story -- because here we're dealing in the present tense. Yet either way, feeling guilt is a lot more useless than actually doing something about it.

 

 

The message has always been clear to me: We were wrong for oppressing you with violence...

That's the error by you and many. We didn't oppress anyone. Not I, or you, Pangloss, ecoli, nor AngryTurtle. It's a few scoundrels in power who must nearly always resort to trickery/deceit to get whoever they can (unwittingly) involved and/or joining their false missions.

 

 

The white guild fantasy thing was remarkable, the leadership element wasn't so much present in district 9 where wikus was still clumsy and foolish even with his new found aspect of bravery, but the leadership and intelligence was given to an alien.

District 9's not the best movie example for showcasing your "white guilt" hypothesis, as its setting takes place in Johannesburg.

 

Where Africans join the racism and/or xenophobia....

 

"They're spending so much money to keep them here, when they could be spending it on other things. At least they're keeping them separate from us."

 

"They must just go. I don't know where they go, must just just go."

 

 

And the corporation that was supposed to help the aliens -- the main guy's philosophy was "the system works this way, and as long as you follow the rules, everything will work." i.e. not racism, just stupidity.

 

The aliens in the movie just want to go home or be left alone, not live with humans. It's not a message about the supposed need for co-living happily together, or white guilt.

 

 

So in conclusion to all, I think it'd be refreshing to have more fantasy where the beautiful races aren't commonly white, or the hero of a tribe isn't the same race as the oppressed -- any change from the norm....yet that does exist already in good quantity if we take note with our eyes, rather than depend on what commentators are saying.

 

For instance, a hugely popular series is that of a dark elf, whose race is black and their cruel deeds are the height of evil, who mostly live deep underground and periodically go out and massacre the goodly white elves -- after learning in school of their "evil" and blame for the dark elves' plight.

 

They hate light and worship an evil goddess. Their women are dominant, the men are warriors but submissive to them. Yet the one dark elf's inner goodness is so strong, he can't relate and must leave his race.

 

Later, this dark elf's the hero in fighting vs the dark elves. The other races had at first distrusted him and upon encounter often reacted violently, but soon he becomes a legendary hero known and respected widely, even though most of his race is still doing much evil.

 

In another story, Dragonlance Chronicles, the heroes are mixed races -- fighting against other mixed races. Even the leader of the group is a "half-breed" mix, and so often enough is disliked by prejudgers/racists of both his origins.

 

Moreover, in each of those stories, the heroic group is a mix consisting of at least 5 different races and cultures.

 

So is the moral of the story here that perhaps book reading is often more diverse/satisfying than film watching?

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

I expect lots of porn to be forth coming wit this sort of CGI, Porn is a huge part of the INTERNET and I'm betting this will be the case with this sort of super realistic CGI.

I'm curious how many porn producers will be able to afford the expensive computing power required for this sort of CGI. Could be big business if it works.

[Moontanman]

I'm curious how many porn producers will be able to afford the expensive computing power required for this sort of CGI. Could be big business if it works.

 

Computing power always gets less expensive, when the movie was first conceived it was impossible, to day it is much easier and will only get easier. With in a few years you should be able to buy a program that will allow you to make your own version of Avatar! (or what ever, lol)

[bascule]

Not everyone agrees.

 

The Science of Avatar (Part II) In there is a link to Part I.

 

Hmm, I guess Avatar gets a bye for them having USB plugs in their hair. "Don't play with that... you'll go blind!" Awesome. Exactly how did those things evolve again?

[Moontanman]

Hmm, I guess Avatar gets a bye for them having USB plugs in their hair. "Don't play with that... you'll go blind!" Awesome. Exactly how did those things evolve again?

 

Yeah, a USB port, I thought the prehensile tail would have been a better place for it, lol. Evidently "Gaea" designed them to be user friendly.

 

Did no one else notice the hexapod theme in all the animals other than the humanoids?

[bascule]

Did no one else notice the hexapod theme in all the animals other than the humanoids?

 

Yes I certainly noticed every animal had 6 legs... except the Na'vi

[AngryTurtle]

Also, I think he put hard thought and work into fitting the science accurately enough, considering the film's setting.

 

Here is where you misinterpreted what I meant. While some small things are inaccurate I was more deeply disgruntled with the lack of technological creativity of the humans which I assume is in the future. Sure all of the human technology makes sense, It is all stuff that is more or less mainstay technology in modern times. I seriously doubt by the time humans are going to other solar systems with large payloads with the intention of mining and shipping back we will not still be pedaling helicopters with rockets that can be dodged by a strafing helicopter. It was exasperatingly imaginative on the side of biology of the planet and quite the opposite on the dynamic advancement of the human race. Even taking into account that it was just a corporations small defense force for their mining operation they were using mining vehicles that exist today and are wielding what must be the equivalent of swords and muskets in the future which would likely be dominated by rail guns, lasers and most kinetic weaponry will likely travel exponentially faster than current bullets (you can watch the tracer rounds skipping their phosphorus across pandora about the same speed as they do today) and likely fragment in air making flying a dragon probably a dangerous activity even with cheapskate tech (which corporations mining for 22mil a kilo wouldn't be cheap with.) So even if you say the technology all is accurate it is, in the same sense filming saving private ryan with swords and shields is scientifically accurate.

 

They couldn't use weapons of mass destruction.

 

The charter allows them to exploit the resources of planets, moons, asteroids... whatever they find... as long as they follow the International Space Resources Treaty, and the other treaties which prohibit weapons of mass destruction and limit military power in space.

 

I think missiles qualify.

 

You may have noticed the world operates under treaties that restrict the use of "Weapons of Mass Destruction" today. Hell, they even say you can't fire a 50 caliber weapon directly at a human being. However, you seem to have lumped all missiles into the ICBM category which isn't exactly true there bud. When i made the statement about their lack of missiles I was technically fibbing, they did use missiles. The missiles used in the movie were like a Hellfire missile mounted on an apache (or what have you.) The missiles I was referring to was the missile of the cruise missile sort. Cruise missiles as I hope everyone here knows, well Cruise. They are fired from a significant distance away and are guided into their target by a number of different methods many of which (such as a satellite) wouldn't be affected by superconductors or magnetic fields or w/e that shpiel about their instruments bugging out was. Even if cruise missiles were considered WMDs which they aren't, the warhead determines that not the delivery method, there are plenty of other missile launching/ artillery platforms that would easily rain death on some big blue indians from way outside of Vietnam huey window gunner range. So Missiles don't qualify now and will continue to not qualify especially if they already have missiles and rockets strapped to their helicopters. Maybe this argument would have worked if i was suggesting they use biological weapons or were using rail guns from space or some shit.

 

No, the only things designed as such is equipment on a mission that was supposed to be focused on bridging the gap between the two cultures. And would you foot the expense to send the big stuff from Earth to Pandora, as insurance vs bows & arrows people?

 

Mission planning's often a lot more complex/involved than at first would seem. [/Quote]

 

Before I even address this statement, I am just going to throw it out there that both of us saw the comically oversized bulldozers that would take out an apartment complex with a single bucket fill and remind you that those must have weighed THOUSANDS of tons.

 

If you honestly can't determine that the weight difference between house quality glass and armor plated glass isn't statistically different for a lift off but the fact that a bullet going through that enormous tactically suicidal pane would mean the loss of an entire armored unit than skip on because the rest will also make no sense. Lets assume that future scientists all bonked their heads and determined the Hairless ape body was the ultimate war platform and decided itd be an amazing idea to make bipedal unbalanced robots with their only armament being scaled up copies of guns for people. Why now would those scientists forget the fact that even 19th and 20th century armored fighting vehicles rely almost exclusively on instruments to guide them so that armor can be placed where armor is most valuable, protecting the commander of the vessel. Would it really be that hard to cover the cock pit with armor of any sort and install some cameras and thermal sensors and just display it as a heads up on the inside of the cockpit? That would make them almost invulnerable to space indians and better yet, why not give them a weapon system that isn't just a bigger gun.

 

Also exactly what role do gunships and a small fleet of helicopters armed with incendiary missiles play in bridging two cultures? If i was heading up a mining corporation on another planet you better believe my weaponry wouldn't be what I almost hope are like some sort of converted mining suit with a gun in hand and helicopters that probably wouldn't even yield and advantage on a 20th century battlefield. With rocks that sell for 22 million a kilo under my feet I would be armed to the teeth against other corporations or space pirates trying to snag a cargo bay full to make them set for life. Honestly if you would leave your operation ripe for the plundering because you didn't want to waste the weight putting armor on the front of your mechs even though you are shipping in equipment designed to haul thousands and thousands of tons of minerals against gravity's pull then i guess i'm lost.

 

So basically mission planning is sometimes more complex than it seems and a perfect example is you're reasoning that military engineering reached a monumental dark age and shipping in a statistically insignificant amount of extra weight would be back breaking to a massive corporation that later burned to the ground due to these tendencies.

 

Cowboys weren't in search of an unobtanium equivalent, and didn't have vastly superior defensive capabilities vs indian weapons -- nor a colonel leading them who's dismissive of attempts to solve the conflicts.

 

You are totally right, the massive settling of the american west had nothing to do with Gold rushes, which if they existed would be people seeking wealth by extracting minerals from the ground that were worth huge sums of money. Also cowboys would actually die if they got hit with an arrow where as future marines even though having the luxury of massive new technology still walk out in their uniforms and get run through by arrows. You know what the difference between those two scenarios is? cowboys didn't have an insurmountable technological advantage and yet they still forced the indians back and slaughtered them by the tribe. Your logic on colonel being a warmonger are outrageous, america literally infected the indians with small pox and forced them off their land killing large quantities of them. Including president Andrew Jackson sending them on a death march. Colonel in the movie was the definition of cool headed, he waited until there was literally no other option and there really wasn't. The closest Sully got to getting them to leave which was a snowballs shot in hell was when he informed them they were all going to die from the iron fist of humanity. Those people weren't going to move and yet at the end celebrated a victory when they pushed the humans away somehow even though their tree was still blown up and if they they had just left the outcome of the movie would have been the exact same omit shitloads of lives. If you honestly watched the movie and thought that if they had given sully some more time the Na'vi would have left than i salute your optimism in the mean time I respect colonel for waiting I think i recall it being 3 years or so for a diplomatic solution that would never come as a rolemodel of patience everwhere.

 

 

With one teeeeeny difference: the larger force didn't have post-21st century technology, flying overhead in safety while raining down explosive hell -- unlike anything seen or fathomed by that entire world.

 

Surely if battling against them, Mel Gibson's face paint would've just become a puddle on the ground along with his face. Then everyone's jaw would drop (permenantly in disbelief), followed by the NORMALLY bravehearted group "flying" to the woods and hills in utter fright/madness.

 

I was more going for the scenario at hand. I think mel gibson could capture it. He was given a scenario where the technology was equal and made it somewhat accurate despite its massive embellishment. However, maybe you are right if the english in braveheart had helicopters and machineguns and the scotts only had spears I think he would have made it happen slightly differently

 

I like how you say that those indigenous people would get cut down in a second but apparently have no problem with indigenous people from another planet in the same scenario mopping up some super technologically advanced ass.

 

Except that instead of the fallacy (by the clueless) depicting the indians as unfailingly peaceful and wise, his equally naïve fallacy goes the complete opposite and depicts their lot as unfailingly heinous and cruel

 

Except maybe its not no naïve for people to be extremely violent, he depicted the main characters village as normal and relatively peaceful. However, they got raided by a violent imperial tribe. Given human history and your having no real quarrels with the evil of the humans in avatar I don't think thats so naïve at all. Evolution has a way of making dominant species kinda violent.

 

 

 

I'll leave white guilt fantasy to someone else since I quasi-agree with some of the things he is saying. Btw, i didn't proof read so if something makes no sense i might have forgot a word.