What did you expect to see by 2010 which isn't here yet?

[JohnB]

My apologies to all. While I was writing I was running both Imperial and Metric in my head. I meant to say 250 pound. (And regardless of Wiki, they do get that big.)

 

Looking at the ideas in order.

Clearly the solution is to line the tracks with misters that emit a pheremone which is repulsive to kangaroos

 

Just linking our Capital cities and using a direct line, minimum distance.

Brisbane - Sydney : 456 miles

Syney - Melbourne : 450 miles

Melbourne - Adelaide : 410 miles

Adelaide - Perth : 1,520 miles

 

If we include the rest of Queenslands east coast to make it a "National" rail link.

Brisbane to Cairns : 886 miles (If you want to go to the tip, add another 460 miles)

 

Total : 3,722 miles

 

(I haven't included Darwin, so you can pick the option that suits you;

Brisbane - Darwin : 1,760 miles

Adelaide - Darwin : 1,635 miles

Perth - Darwin : 1,648 miles

 

So closing the loop Perth-Darwin-Cairns adds around another 3,000 miles.)

 

Nearly 4,000 miles of pheremone emitters to be serviced regularly and a measly 20 million people to pay for it. It's not worth it, there are better things to spend money on. Not to mention that the greenies would kick and scream about interfering with the "natural" movement patterns of the roos.

 

Because armoring the front of the train would increase its weight by 0.01%?

In total that would probably be about right. IIRC, the worry was more that the front would be steel plate and the rest aluminium. Personally I don't see how this would be a problem. Different moments of inertia between loco and carraiges? I just don't know.

 

modern cow catcher would solve that problem, I don't really see how bulking up the head of the train would really cause problems.

A cow catcher is fine for deflecting animals that stay on the ground. A cow catcher covering the entire front of the train was a different matter. TBH, when this was being discussed years ago that was my first thought too. (I still don't know why it wouldn't work)

 

The bottom line is that the idea was found to be both impractical and uneconomic. While we do have high(er) speed trains, they generally don't go over 100 mph.

 

Speaking from personal experience, I have seen the engine of one of the old steel Toyota Landcruisers pushed clean into the passenger compartment by roo impact at 60 mph. What they would do to a train at 180 mph isn't worth thinking about.

 

We don't put things like this on the front of sedans for fun.

 

When considering rail transport, there are three main factors, distance, population and dangers. We have the same area as the US with 1/15 th the population to pay for the lines. We also have large, solid wild animals that are not stopped by a standard fence like cattle are.

 

If I were to drive due west, in 780 miles I would get to the South Australian border, roughly the width of Texas. But if I were to drive north for the same distance as it is from Mexico to Canada, I would still be in Queensland. And in all this vast area, we have less then 3 million people to try to pay for transport infrastructure. With 15 times our population and States that you can p*ss across, you guys can't do it for Amtrack.

 

(I'll add that is quite surreal to be driving in an area that is as flat as a board all the way to the horizon in all directions and see the sign "Road subject to flooding indicators show depth" and realising the indicators are 14 feet high.)

[bascule]

JohnB, sorry, perhaps I didn't label my suggestion correctly

 

[sARCASM]Clearly the solution is to line the tracks with misters that emit a pheremone which is repulsive to kangaroos[/sARCASM]

[AngryTurtle]

SIMMER DOWN FOLKS SIMMER DOWN!

 

john you bring up a good point and while I still (as with you apparently) don't understand why mounting some sort of deflection device doesn't work (apparently roos can assault a train from like 9m in the air) i'll take your word for it though.

 

On the topic of basically saying trains are impractical because Australia's relative emptiness the upfront cost would seem large. However, (I am assuming I don't actually know anything about Australian population dispersal) most of the population is probably concentrated in cities which is an ideal scenario for trains with their generally linear shots between dense zones not working as well with more dispersed populations. When taking into account industrial purposes, moreso than personal transport, shipping large quantities of goods and materials around (which i assume is done by truck currently) it almost seems like it would pay for itself eventually wikipedia defyingly large kangaroos and all.

 

Now, I challenge this thread to change gears a bit and from now you not only have to point out something you expected to exist or be better you now have to couple it with a hypothetical cure. I suggest someone starts by proposing their fantasy cure to Australia's transportation problems! (if you problem is "they shoulda figured out how to do this" then be creative)

[JohnB]

bascule, sorry mate, I missed it. It's hard to tell sometimes.

 

We cull (shoot) a couple of million a year to keep the numbers down and this has caused outrage in certain circles. People like PETA have suggested that we should administer contraceptives instead, as that would be more humane. How on Gods earth you administer contraceptives to 20+ million kangarooos is never explained.

 

Believe me, what you put forward sarcastically would have been suggested in all seriousness by somebody.

 

Angry Turtle. We do use trains, everything from normal goods and passenger trains to great monstrous triple headers pulling a few hundred coal wagons. The problem is with high speed passenger trains.

 

AKAIK, we are the only place that has road trains too. Passing one of these suckers on the highway is an "interesting" experience.

[bascule]

AKAIK, we are the only place that has road trains too. Passing one of these suckers on the highway is an "interesting" experience.

 

4+ trailers is pretty crazy, although in parts of America (mostly Utah/Nevada/Arizona) it is not uncommon to see a semi with 3 trailers.

[Phi for All]

I hate to say it, but I think much of our expectations in the 70s and 80s remain unmet because we haven't been forced to be more resourceful. We still use horribly inefficient means of transportation and energy because they've been cheap and abundant. I don't think we'll fix anything until we're forced to by economic necessity or a lack of resources.

 

I'm reminded of Asimov's Foundation series. The outer planets came up with micro-machinery because they had a lack of metals way out there. Simple expediency.

[CharonY]

Or more fuel efficient cars in Europe because gasoline is so darn expensive there.

[Phi for All]

Or more fuel efficient cars in Europe because gasoline is so darn expensive there.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. In the US, it took $5/gallon gasoline before we started backing off our consumption, and that still wasn't nearly what Europe pays for petrol. And we'll still stick with hybridized internal consumption, even though more efficiency in burning gasoline is needed.

 

The market favors this type of incremental approach, even though it clashes with our desire for innovation. It just costs too much to jump into future too quickly.

 

*sigh*

[bascule]

I hate to say it, but I think much of our expectations in the 70s and 80s remain unmet because we haven't been forced to be more resourceful. We still use horribly inefficient means of transportation and energy because they've been cheap and abundant. I don't think we'll fix anything until we're forced to by economic necessity or a lack of resources.

 

Yes, sadly, America is addicted to the car. I'm often chastized for using public transportation, even though I find it more convenient albeit a bit more time consuming. When I tell people I take the bus to work, the reaction is often "WHY DON'T YOU DRIVE???". I cannot overemphasize how many times I've received this reaction from people.

 

Tonight, I'm glad I spent an hour and a half coming home on the bus in the middle of a blizzard reading Neil Stephenson's excellent book The Diamond Age as opposed to driving home on snowpacked roads fearing for my life the entire time, even if the latter were arguably "faster". Amazing how time flies when you're reading a good book.

[npts2020]

The problem of kangaroos mixing with trains can be solved by enclosing the rail system. I think the best (cheapest effective) way would be to make a cage with something like chain link fencing.

[AngryTurtle]

The problem of kangaroos mixing with trains can be solved by enclosing the rail system. I think the best (cheapest effective) way would be to make a cage with something like chain link fencing.

 

a fence requires constant upkeep, and unlike Cattle in the americas kangaroos will go under and over fences. if it truly takes one kangaroo to cripple a train than all it would take is one kangaroo digging under the fence to render the entire system defeated. You would have to in case it in a giant inverted halfpipe type dome and after that was completed you would have to afford some way for people/animals to get over the tracks, you can't just put up a berlin wall in the outback...

[npts2020]

a fence requires constant upkeep, and unlike Cattle in the americas kangaroos will go under and over fences. if it truly takes one kangaroo to cripple a train than all it would take is one kangaroo digging under the fence to render the entire system defeated. You would have to in case it in a giant inverted halfpipe type dome and after that was completed you would have to afford some way for people/animals to get over the tracks, you can't just put up a berlin wall in the outback...

 

Well any solution to having to limit speed of travel because of mixed use (in this case trains and kangaroos) is going to cost money. The real question is whether it is worth it to do so. While it is true that an occasional animal might get into the system and that you will have to incorporate animal bridges and/or tunnels into the design, it would still be an improvement over current design. The alternatives are to do nothing (most probable) or do something else that will likely be even more expensive in order to be as effective.