New Holistic view (Relativity)

[Chriton]

How do you have a good discussion going if you do not have the math?

 

So! Why are you posting in my thread if I am so stupid? this is "Speculation"

you do not need Math to speculate.

[Phi for All]

this is "Speculation"

you do not need Math to speculate.

If you don't use math to speculate, don't be surprised when it's used to prove you wrong.

[mooeypoo]

If you don't use math to speculate, don't be surprised when it's used to prove you wrong.

 

Chriton, you should also do well by reading the speculation policy and the sticky "So you have a new theory".

 

 

And with due respect, seeing as you've barely participated in it and the direction the thread took for the past 7 pages, it's hardly "your" thread anymore.

[Chriton]

I am new to this Forum but I am looking forward to reading all the Theories that are there, I personally do not believe in The "Big Bang Theory" the speed of light being constant, so E=Mc2 is wrong, and linear Time,I will have many alternative points of view, I am an Electronic Engineer so I do know from the Atom, and I am looking forward to other input, but it is late at the moment in my time zone so am going to bed, looking forward to Ideas!!!!

 

This was my original post..perhaps I posted in the wrong Forum but I never stated that I had all the answers, The introduction to the Forum was for all levels of Knowledge of Physics, not for Mathmaticians only.

Math is not the 'Holy Grail' and dose not hold all the answers, although I respect your experties in Math and cannot begin to be as good, I do have a good knowledge of Physics and life knowledge

 

I just stated what I think and did not wish to encroach on your held beliefs.

 

Math is a means to an end and Equations can be used to prove or disprove any theory, but although I believe that Math is useful, it is not always the answer to the question, that is why I named my thread as a 'Holistic' view, meaning an all round view of how things work.

 

I do not mind your ridicule or your condecending attitude if that is what makes you feel superior and I do not visit the Forum every day but I will continue to post if I think that my thoughts are valid.

 

So try not to confuse me in Math as it wont work..

[Phi for All]

This was my original post..perhaps I posted in the wrong Forum but I never stated that I had all the answers, The introduction to the Forum was for all levels of Knowledge of Physics, not for Mathmaticians only.

Math is not the 'Holy Grail' and dose not hold all the answers, although I respect your experties in Math and cannot begin to be as good, I do have a good knowledge of Physics and life knowledge

Math is the language of physics. You will never be able to grasp the more complicated parts of physics without it.

 

Don't worry, you're not alone. Many of us here, me included, will never have a complete understanding of physics, but we have learned not to dismiss what we don't fully grasp.

I just stated what I think and did not wish to encroach on your held beliefs.

You really need to stop referring to science as a "held belief". The scientific method ensures that evidence takes precedence over personal wishes and hopes.

 

Math is a means to an end and Equations can be used to prove or disprove any theory, but although I believe that Math is useful, it is not always the answer to the question, that is why I named my thread as a 'Holistic' view, meaning an all round view of how things work.

This is wrong. If a theory is valid, math can't be used to disprove it. Maths used in physics is not like statistics; you can't manipulate the numbers to give you the answer you want if it's not the right answer.

 

I do not mind your ridicule or your condecending attitude if that is what makes you feel superior and I do not visit the Forum every day but I will continue to post if I think that my thoughts are valid.

 

So try not to confuse me in Math as it wont work..

Science wouldn't be the accurate methodology it is if one person's answers were just as valid as everyone else's. It's not so much about right and wrong as it is about the best working explanation of reality. You might try reading the work of the thousands of people who have worked and studied all their lives to produce answers their peers judge to be the best working explanation of reality before you start rewriting their work.

 

No ridicule or condescension intended, EVER.

[Chriton]

I can only give you an opinion.

 

For some reason, this place/universe operates according to the rules of math.

 

There would be no current technology if this were false.

 

So, when describing events and behaviors in the universe, math has been shown to be the best model for its description.

 

Don't ask me why because I do not know.

 

Yes! Math is the only way we have to describe the universe around us and it is valid in how we understand things but before we can understand the answer we have to know the question.

 

We, as humans have evolved to only know what we need to survive, there must be other energies out there that we cannot comprehend.

 

Our Math cannot take all those things into consideration, we only know what our limited knowledge tells us, not everything can be measured...

[swansont]

The tangential discussion by vuquta, which caused the thread to be closed, has been moved to its own thread. This thread is reopened for discussion of the original topic.

[The Bear's Key]

Our Math cannot take all those things into consideration, we only know what our limited knowledge tells us, not everything can be measured...

Precisely, and everything we can measure has an official name: science.* All else is whatever you'd like to call it: supposing, philosophy, what-ifs, mental exercises, creativity, stories, legends, religion, ideas, etc.

 

 

*(If we can also test it, as well as have it peer reviewed and the tests duplicated consistently)

[michel123456]

Precisely, and everything we can measure has an official name: science.* All else is whatever you'd like to call it: supposing, philosophy, what-ifs, mental exercises, creativity, stories, legends, religion, ideas, etc.

 

 

*If we can also test it as well as have it peer reviewed and the tests duplicated.

 

Fortunately, science is not a dead structure. Science need creativity, new ideas, mental exercise, etc. The problem is when you do such mental exercises you may get very quickly outside the borders.

[The Bear's Key]

Good point. I suppose in the end, it's what (accurately) gets recorded as science that counts.

[mooeypoo]

Fortunately, science is not a dead structure. Science need creativity, new ideas, mental exercise, etc. The problem is when you do such mental exercises you may get very quickly outside the borders.

The problem isn't about getting outside the borders - that's how revolutions happen, and they *do* happen - the problem is to make sure the 'new ideas' and 'mental exercises' fit reality, follow the scientific method and accurately predict behavior in our universe.

 

Otherwise, they're kept in the realm of imagination rather than science.

[swansont]

Fortunately, science is not a dead structure. Science need creativity, new ideas, mental exercise, etc. The problem is when you do such mental exercises you may get very quickly outside the borders.

 

Any "new science" has to agree with all of the previously done experiments.

 

Chriton's claim that "Equations can be used to prove or disprove any theory" is wrong. Only experimentation, i.e. scientific observations of nature, can disprove or support a theory.

[Chriton]

OK! Let me try again to give you my Logic...If you think I am wrong go easy on me...Ha Ha.

 

Theory is just that, "Why", "What if" or "Perhaps"...Math or Experiments in thermselves are not progressive but the Speculation's and Insite of the Human being is, We use the Math or Experiments to prove or disprove our Theories, and if it works then we continue to the next theory.

 

Perhaps you have a Theory, then you use Math or Experiments to prove or disprove your own Theory, if it works then you have discovered something new, but others might disprove your Math or Experiments by using other equations or Formula.

 

There are people out there trying to disprove E=mc2, Perhaps they will then we will have a new Theory.

We do need people who can think outside the box, Creative people and Visionaries that can come up with new ideas that is the only way we can broaden our understanding of the Universe and Existence.

 

I am open minded and tried to put that over in my Initial Thread.

 

I see in another Thread E=mc2 , it was asked if Einstine's Theory was set in stone, the answer is NO!

 

In Special Relativity, Time is relative to Energy or Speed, then if you measure the speed of Light surely you are using time to measure it, then dose not a Photon have its own relative time compared to other Energies, I know that it is complicated and I would not dare try the Math (you are all better than me) but I am trying to use Logic.

 

But surely Math only gives you a baseline to compare things to; we can only compare things like how Light or Dark, How Hot or Hold, we use comparisons to determine the Variation of things, you cannot measure the distance of a star in feet and inches or the size of an Atom in light years, Math gives us a baseline to what and how we measure things, so Math is only relative to what we are measuring, Yes it is a tool and should only be used as a tool to further our understanding of things but Insite and questioning I believe to be the answer to how far we can understand things.

 

Go easy on me, I am just a thinker

Edited January 28, 2010 by Chriton

[swansont]

The math allows you to make specific predictions. Those predictions can then be confirmed or refuted by experiment. Einstein;s theory is not set in stone; like all science, it could require modification. But the weight of evidence supporting it means that modifications would only occur under extreme conditions (as with quantum gravity, as I believe was already given as an example)

[npts2020]

But surely Math only gives you a baseline to compare things to; we can only compare things like how Light or Dark, How Hot or Hold, we use comparisons to determine the Variation of things, you cannot measure the distance of a star in feet and inches or the size of an Atom in light years, Math gives us a baseline to what and how we measure things, so Math is only relative to what we are measuring, Yes it is a tool and should only be used as a tool to further our understanding of things but Insite and questioning I believe to be the answer to how far we can understand things.

 

Go easy on me, I am just a thinker

 

You certainly can measure things like that (the highlighted part). It is just inconvenient and not as accurate to do so.

[swansont]

You certainly can measure things like that (the highlighted part). It is just inconvenient and not as accurate to do so.

 

Actually the accuracy and precision are unaffected - many of the common unit conversions are now defined, i.e. they are exact (e.g. 2.54 cm per inch is an exact conversion, so one can convert English and SI without loss of precision or accuracy). It's all in the inconvenience part.