Google's Ultimatum to China

[bascule]

http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/new-approach-to-china.html

 

Google implied they, along with 20 other companies, were hacked by the Chinese government to obtain information about human rights activists.

 

They are now saying that they are going to ask the Chinese government to let them serve unfiltered search results. If (when) the Chinese government refuses, they will be leaving China.

 

I applaud Google on this one.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

On the other hand, if Google pulls out of China, the Chinese government won't have to worry about censoring Chinese search results any more.

 

It's a lose-lose situation, really. It's good that Google isn't allowing itself and its users to be trampled by the Chinese government, but it's unfortunate that their alternative is not existing in China at all.

 

I'd love to see a much stronger attempt by the worldwide Internet community to break through the Great Firewall and provide Chinese citizens easier means to get uncensored access to the Internet.

[Pangloss]

Yes, ultimately Google needs China more than China needs Google.

 

Perhaps Google is playing for something that's beneath the public radar.

[bascule]

Yes, ultimately Google needs China more than China needs Google.

 

The large amount of market share (30%) Google was able to take from Baidu in the short amount of time Google was operating there shows that Baidu isn't exactly the world's greatest search engine.

[Mr Skeptic]

Yes, ultimately Google needs China more than China needs Google.

 

Perhaps, but political leaders in any regime need to keep their people at least somewhat happy. For the people, this is 2 wins or 2 loses. And remember that it's not just Google, there are 20 other companies as well. The question then is, does China want to spy on its people more than it wants to avoid royally pissing off their population?

 

To be cynical, there's nothing stopping these companies from pulling out for a month or so, letting some nice sentiments for the Chinese government sink in, and then finding some sort of excuse to go back in.

[bascule]

http://images.google.cn/images?q=tiananmen+massacre

 

google.cn is now showing pictures of tanks and corpses when you search for "tiananmen massacre"

 

http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2010/01/135105.htm

 

And the State Department is now involved

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8458269.stm

 

The Beeb says Google was expected to make $600 million in China in 2010. That's no small change -- that's 10% of their 2008 operating income, for example. So Baidu's claims that Google is just using this as an excuse to pull out of the Chinese market is unfounded: Google makes far too much money in China to give up for no reason.

[tomgwyther]

I think (Or at least would like to think) that Google want to pull out of China on purely moral grounds, irrespective of how much money they would loose.

Google's success I believe, has more to do with being incredibly usefull rather than merely chasing profit, but through it's usefulness; has acquired a huge market share.

Its success is down to its efforts to allow the free flow of information, which China wants to put a stop to.

It appears that Google is sticking to it's founding principle "Don't be evil."

For which I applaud them.

[Phi for All]

I think it's a good ploy to use with the Chinese government. Pulling out for reasons of honor is something the Chinese can identify with. I think it will gain respect for what Google stands for. Google now needs to throw them a bone so the Chinese can capitulate without losing face.

 

If this was the Russians, you would stand up to them, call them out and not back down. That's something the Russians understand and respect, and it's basically why Bush's normally inept foreign policy worked with them but not the Chinese.

 

I do think Google needs to downplay the "evil" part of why they're doing what they're doing. I know it's their company slogan but you won't get far with China if you color them evil. How do you back down honorably from that?

[Pangloss]

This story is developing in an interesting direction. China is firing back, but not solely on the basis of "it's our country and we're in charge, go away". It's saying that it HAS a free internet, and that what censorship there is is lawful, constitutional, and overwhelmingly popular with the people of China.

 

These two articles are worth a look. The first one, from Ars Technica, reports on the Chinese perspective. The second one, an opinion piece from tech reporter Bruce Nussbaum at Newsweek, offers a first-hand perspective of what the Chinese people think. I've pasted a couple of interesting quotes below as well.

 

The second quote below is just fascinating to me.

 

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/01/china-to-us-stop-accusations-on-so-called-internet-freedom.ars

 

The Chinese constitution protects freedom of speech, he added—which it does, along with freedom of the press, of association, of religion, of demonstration, and freedom to criticize the government. The constitution also notes that "work is the glorious duty of every able-bodied citizen."

 

Those rights come with some terrific caveats, though. Religion is fine unless it could "disrupt public order, impair the health of citizens or interfere with the educational system of the state." Privacy is an absolute right except when it's not, such as when "public security or procuratorial organs are permitted to censor correspondence in accordance with procedures prescribed by law." Etc.

 

China insists that its restrictions are all written into law, however, and are therefore legal, which in turn means that they are a simple matter of cultural difference, and foreigners should just stop talking about them and start complying with them. The reality, as most Internet companies have found, is that censorship can be random, and even major companies never know when Internet services will be blocked and when they won't.

 

http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/NussbaumOnDesign/archives/2010/01/internet_freedo.html

 

The stereotype of of a distant, old, militaristic censor shutting down blogs and web sites on whim is incorrect. Both the young. high-tech entrepreneurs developing new online businesses and the government censors come from the same good universities, are extremely well-educated and know each other personally. The two sides are in constant contact every day, pushing and pulling, reshaping the zone and focus of censorship. In general, both sides, mostly men in their 20s and early 30s, I am told, are trying to increase the space of what is allowed. I am also told that one problem with Google in China was that it was not tied into this network of censor and censored as well as Baidu and other Chinese web companies. And Google didn’t share the accepted culture of dynamic censorship, further antagonizing the censors.