Do animals think?

[weasel54849]

What do you all think, do animals think? I say yes they do. I would have posted this in a poll but I guess I am not special enough to do that.

[admiral_ju00]

They do to an extent. Many studies have been done and are done with various forms of Cognition based skills/tests, etc.

They can process Indexes and Icons.

Humans can process Indexes, Icons and Symbols. Therefore humans can think in Abstract thought. Humans are the only ones capable of Symbolic(abstract) thought.

 

Also, there is some(or a lot) of animal behavior that is simply innate, thereby it does not require much skills at say memory or cognitions.

 

{edit}

I would have posted this in a poll but I guess I am not special enough to do that.

 

It's not that you're not special enough, you simply didn't scoll far down enought to see that Check mark to make this post into a poll

[MacM]

What do you all think, do animals think? I say yes they do. I would have posted this in a poll but I guess I am not special enough to do that.

 

Definitely. A recent story was on national news about a dog in Atlanta Georgia. He had gotten loose from the family yard and got on a main road and was struck by a car.

 

He was severly injured but from that point crawlwed 8 miles. NOT HOME but to the front door of the family vetinarian clinic.!

[admiral_ju00]

MacM, I think you took this far too seriously.

In reality, that could have simply been an accident, or perhaps the dog was at the hospital too many times in the past so that the [Pain = Vet Clinic] was conditioned.

 

That happens all the time. It's called Classical Conditioning or Pavlov's Conditioning.

 

I suggest you check on/out Pavlov's K9 experiments.

[Leison]

Humans can process Indexes' date=' Icons and Symbols. Therefore humans can think in Abstract thought. Humans are the only ones capable of Symbolic(abstract) thought.

[/quote']

 

 

 

Could u plez give me more information on the above quoted matters [indexes,icons,symbols] .It would be better if u give a web link.

[admiral_ju00]

Going to make me work for that eh? Lol, alright, I may not have enough time to do it today, but if you want a place to start, I do believe that these concepts are emphasized by the (Socio)Cybernetics.

 

This book by Prof Samuel Ichiy Hayakawa is one of the first things that easily comes to mind. He's(or rather Was) a Philosopher or something.

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0155501208/wwwlink-software-21/202-7159993-6407024

 

I'll need some more time for other sources as I don't remember the names of other more prominent authors who emphasize that.

[NavajoEverclear]

Well its just a matter of electricity. If they have neurons which they use to respond to stimuli, they think to a degree. This evolves and they devolop more complex adaptations to do more complicated tasks. But yeah, animals dont think the same as humans. Not necissarily saying they are stupider, because in some tasks an animal is probably faster and more adapt at responding than humans are. That makes me curious, has anyone ever done research into which animal has the fastest working brain? But not ALL animals think. Sponges and Jellyfish don't have brains. Tho jellyfish do have nerve systems. Hey that makes me wonder something else, how comprehensive are the nerve systems? could they actually be a form of a brain, even tho they aren't centralized? For metaphor--- a computer can do lots of things, a calculator (or any other electronic device) cant do so many things, but still uses the same technology. The electronic devices however mostly have one function, and one program.

Do jellyfish have programing in their nerves? i donno, swim program, catch food program, eat food program, attack program, mate program--- actually they might not do either of the last two on that list . . . .

 

However sponges most certainly have no thoughts whatsoever, and they are animals.

[Leison]

thanks for the link but .. . i can't buy that book just to get some basic ideas on Indexes, Icons and Symbols. so it'd be better if provide me another link but not a book or sthg else

[admiral_ju00]

Well, how about this:

http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~port/teach/103/sign.symbol.html

[Leison]

thanks thanks a lot. This is what i wanted.

[ed84c]

some things that can think

-Chimps

-Dogs

-Octupie

-Whales

-and most bizarrley- flies

[admiral_ju00]

Do not confuse behavior that is Conditioned, Innate or one based on Instincts with Congnition.

[ed84c]

Do not confuse by using long words........ lol

[Sayonara]

Flies don't think, they just respond.

 

Cephalopods are cursed, because they are intelligent enough to be able to perform simple tasks like opening screw-top jars to get at food etc, but they don't remember the method for much more than 24 hours.

[weasel54849]

Yeah I do not think that animals can think in the same way humans do either, but they do think somethings. Wouldn't it be cool to get inside a dogs head for about 5 minutes just to see what it is thinking.

 

I tried to put this in the poll forum but it said I do not have a high enough ranking, It said I need to be an admin or something.

[Dave]

imo, it's a fairly pointless debate, since we're probably never going to know.

[coquina]

Anecdote - y'all can decide.

 

I raised a squirrel from only a few days old (no fur, eyes closed, and ears closed) to adulthood.

 

When he got old enough that he could eat, he hid half of his food - under the cushions, or in the pockets of coats - any place he could find. Innate behavior, sure. You'd think that he'd try to dig a hole in the carpet, wouldn't you? He never did.

 

The most amazing thing that I witnessed was as follows:

I had made the bed and folded a blanket at the foot. He watched what I was doing. I gave him a peanut. He took it to the blanket, folded back a corner, used his paws to make a small depression (he did not scratch), put the peanut in the depression, folded the blanket back down and used his paws to smooth it out. Then he stood up on his hind legs and looked at what he'd done, to make sure his nut was hidden.

 

Yeah - I know about making anthropomorphic statements, but that is what I observed. I have come to believe we don't give animals enough credit for their thought processes.

[Dave]

I have come to believe we don't give animals enough credit for their thought processes.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with this statement.

[coquina]

I named the squirrel Rocky. I found him early in March, when it was still cold. As I said, he had no fur. I wore a sweatshirt with a kangaroo pouch in the front. I would wrap him up in a piece of flannel and stick him in the pouch so my body heat would keep him warm. As a result, he "loved" for me to pick him up and cuddle him.

 

When he got older, I put him in a parrot cage in my back office. There was a bell in the top of it. He slept in a pile of towels in the bottom. One day, when he was running around in the cage he accidentally hit the bell. When it rang, I heard it and got him out of the cage. The next day I heard the bell ringing like crazy. When I went to check it out, he had climbed to the top of the cage and was beating the hell out of it with his paws.

 

It may be attributed to a conditioned response, but he learned what would get my attention after only one try. Also - food wasn't the reward, attention was. He had a supply of food in his cage all the time.

[YT2095]

dogs and cats often dream when asleep also, that not only impies thinking, but Imagination as well

[Sayonara]

Not necessarily; it's far more likely to be random recall.

[ed84c]

flie do think.

 

By the way were are all these wierd soundclips from, 'Doom song' and 'I saw a squirrel' etc.

[Sayonara]

flie do think.

No they don't. They don't even have brains.

 

 

By the way were are all these wierd soundclips from, 'Doom song' and 'I saw a squirrel' etc.

Invader Zim.

[badchad]

What about an animal thats conditioned to respond to a stimulus? For instance, I have rats that I have trained to press levers in order to receive a food reward (the conditioned response). Once they gain the ability to press both levers (2) in the box, I then pair one of the levers with a stimulus. In my research I use a hallucinogenic drug (LSD). Now, when I put the rat in the box preceded by an injection of LSD, it's the right lever that rewards him. When I put him in the box without receiving any drug it's the left lever that rewards him. After a few trials the animal can select the correct lever with above 99% accuracy. This implies that that the animal can tell the difference between an injection of saline, and an injection of LSD and in effect "tell" us whether or not he is experiencing the subjective effects of the drug based upon the lever selection.

 

It's entirely possible that the stimulus cue of LSD is physiological (e.g. sympathetic stimulation, increased heart rate etc.), however the main effects of LSD are on cognition and sensory perception. IMO the rats ability to discriminate between LSD and saline is due to changes in his subjective state, which implies a higher level of thinking then one would expect from a simple labrat. $0.02

[Sinsay]

Once just before going to sleepv I heard something in the kitchen I walked in the cat was on the chair & looked up sleeply ? I layed back I heard it again as soon as i hit the bed ? I got up walked in looked at the cat He looked back without a hint of ...............

I step around out of him seein me & made like i was walkin waited Then sure was the cat jumpin from their back to the chair I gave him the food He didnt want it then (cats :S ) but the point is he knew if i didnt see him it was still up in the air as to who was doing it If that aint thinkin i dont know what is