Ethical abortion?

[Lance]

Ok I will list a few scenarios and would like some people to answer whether they would be ethical and why.

 

1) A 13 year old girl is raped and becomes pregnant. Would it be ethical to have an abortion early in the pregnancy?

 

2) Full age adult becomes pregnant. Would it be ethical to have an abortion early in the pregnancy?

 

3) Full age adult becomes pregnant. Would it be ethical to have an abortion late in the pregnancy?

 

4) Full age woman has a partial birth abortion.

 

5) "Baby Doe" scenario. Potentially retarded born baby is refused life.

 

6) Normal born baby is "put down"

 

7) Retarded adult is "put down"

 

At what point does a fetus become human? When is it OK to kill a human?

 

I do not wish to flame, just to understand.

[blike]

1) A 13 year old girl is raped and becomes pregnant. Would it be ethical to have an abortion early in the pregnancy?

 

Yes

 

2) Full age adult becomes pregnant. Would it be ethical to have an abortion early in the pregnancy?

 

Yes

 

3) Full age adult becomes pregnant. Would it be ethical to have an abortion late in the pregnancy?

 

4) Full age woman has a partial birth abortion.

 

5) "Baby Doe" scenario. Potentially retarded born baby is refused life.

 

6) Normal born baby is "put down"

 

7) Retarded adult is "put down"

 

No!

 

I don't have a problem with abortion as long as it is before the heart starts beating. After that point, in my opinion, abortion is unethical.

[Lance]

Alright, so is it generally agreed that abortion it is ethical only before the heart starts beating? Does anybody have a differing opinion?

 

What really changes at this point?

 

I just came back from a series of extremely conservative seminars where it was generally agreed that life starts at conception, and I would just like to hear how the other side feels.

[YT2095]

what is a "Partial abortion"?

[Lance]

Oh... Partial birth abortion.

 

Edit: wait that’s exactly what it says...

 

Now that I think about it, it's probably not that different from the late term abortion scenario.

[pulkit]

1) A 13 year old girl is raped and becomes pregnant. Would it be ethical to have an abortion early in the pregnancy?

 

2) Full age adult becomes pregnant. Would it be ethical to have an abortion early in the pregnancy?

 

3) Full age adult becomes pregnant. Would it be ethical to have an abortion late in the pregnancy?

 

4) Full age woman has a partial birth abortion

 

Ethical according to me (As long as no.4 means the same as no.3)

 

5) "Baby Doe" scenario. Potentially retarded born baby is refused life.

 

6) Normal born baby is "put down"

 

7) Retarded adult is "put down"

 

Definately not ok !

[Lance]

But you didn’t answer why....

 

Why would a partial birth abortion be ethical when if the baby was delivered another 2-4" It would be called murder?

 

Maybe some of you don’t understand what a partial birth abortion is.

 

here is a site that explains it.

Note that this can and is done up to 9 months into the pregnancy. In most cases if the baby is fully delivered the baby can go strait to the mother’s arms with no ill effects.

 

What really changes in those few inches? I’m not really interested in what you believe so much as why you believe.

[pulkit]

I do not believe there are too many people who would consider case#1 as unethical, forcing the victim to have the baby would be more of a trauma.......

 

I feel that anyone who is going in for an early abortion would be very clear that she can't support a child or does not want one..... it is better not to have one in that case, rather than make a child feel un wanted or bring him up shabbily. This should always remai a choice of the person having the child, and taking this choice away would in my opinion be slightly unfair.

 

A would give the same argument for a late abortion, though many would argue that is out right killing a living being. I look at it this way, as long as the foetus is still a part of the mother, it is should be her right to decide its fate (I know many people would disagree with me here, but thats just the way I feel).

 

Now that you provided a link to explain partial birth abortion, it really does seem a wrong thing to do, because you first deliver the child and then just kill it. I am forced to change my opinion on this and must say this seems quite wrong thing to do.

 

The last three situations are just not the right thing to do, it is like clensing society.... What next putting down all those physically weaker ? Just not right........ you can't end a life like that. I must point out though that I am not against euthanasia, which would be a very diffrent situation from the three described here.

[TheProphet]

I liked pulkits reasoning! Also Blikes... but in some cases i can and shurely would say Yes to all! Just due too one fact... If the child will not be able to have a normal life! If that ain't fullfilled then any abort must be bether! And regarding partial abortion, (be aware Irony) why don't they just pull it out and chop it's head off!? just the same too me... Strange idea...

[5614]

the thing is that, let start at the begining: wots wrong with killing a human, like me, or you?

obviously, becuase its wrong, but whys it wrong?

because the person will be missed, cause them pain, and stress before it because they know what is about to happen..... [open to other reasons]

 

so, the baby wont know what has happened will it? one second it will be alive, then it will be dead, no stress/pain, and the parents wanted it, so it wont b missed? so why shouldnt you kill it? if its gonna cause you problems if its alive?

 

so yes, abortion is fine, if it will be problematic when it is alive, no matter how far into the pregnancy...... thats what i think, but only if it will be a difficulty when its alive, or if its a "bad baby" and has a very bad disease, then if alive, the baby would have a bad life, should be killed now, before the misery starts......

 

[wots wrong with killing, like i know its wrong, i think its wrong, but what the actuall definition, just wondered?!] dont get worried i never have or will killed, just wondered

[Lance]

And regarding partial abortion, why don't they just pull it out and chop its head off!? Just the same too me... Strange idea...

 

Because then it would be murder...

 

Also you should note that if a pregnant woman is murdered the defendant can be charged with double murder...

 

So it seems to me if the baby is wanted it's human but if the baby is unwanted then it's not human...

 

Also I would be careful where you’re treading; I'm sure more than a few people would be irritated with people suggesting we pull babies out of a woman’s womb just before "chopping" its head off.

 

But that’s still a good point. Where is the line? When does the baby become a human baby? Does a fetus only become a baby when it is delivered?

 

the thing is that' date=' let start at the beginning: wots wrong with killing a human, like me, or you?

obviously, becuase its wrong, but whys it wrong?

because the person will be missed, cause them pain, and stress before it because they know what is about to happen..... [open to other reasons']

 

So would it be OK to murder my neighbor (who has no family) and loot his house? Nobody would miss him…There would be no pain with a bullet in the back of the head… he wouldn’t know what’s about to happen because I would sneak up behind him.

 

So by your standards this action would not be unethical?

[Lance]

so yes' date=' abortion is fine, if it will be problematic when it is alive, no matter how far into the pregnancy...... thats what i think, but only if it will be a difficulty when its alive, or if its a "bad baby" and has a very bad disease, then if alive, the baby would have a bad life, should be killed now, before the misery starts......[/quote']

 

Interesting... Do you know what the holocaust started with?

 

Are you familiar with "operation T-4"? It resulted in more than 70,000 mentally handicapped children being murdered. The doctors were said to be healing the children by ending the suffering.

 

And of course their actions were justified… right? Right? Right….?

[TheProphet]

Lance: i knew this would happen, but u did seem to get my point.. what's so different with choping it's head of outside the woman and sucking it's brain out inside her? To me it's still murder since u define it that way! But to me, it's a ltof worse to have a unwanted child and then murder it! Or not to take it that far! but too abuse it.. never give it love.. etc etc.. is that any bether?

[Lance]

Oh, I wasn’t criticizing your point, just how you brought it across. And those are the type of questions I'm trying to get answered.

 

It seems to me every day the line is becoming more blurred. What happened to the belief that life starts at conception? What has changed this opinion?

[TheProphet]

Oh' date=' I wasn’t criticizing your point, just how you brought it across. And those are the type of questions I'm trying to get answered.

 

It seems to me every day the line is becoming more blurred. What happened to the belief that life starts at conception? What has changed this opinion?[/quote']

 

so i noticed.. i changed the post now to let u see my ironi.. should have been more clear about that then!

 

to me this is a balancing of life and suffering... but in genereal i'd answer the same as blike did! But ingeneral isn't i good enough in this case! i just liked to state that these questions aren't either black or white! This is all grey!

 

i also belive double murder is a American thingy! Guess we donät have that here in sweden though..

[pulkit]

i also belive double murder is a American thingy! Guess we donät have that here in sweden though..

 

 

Not sure about the double murder thing , but abortion is completely legal here in India, and foeticide is infact quite a common practice.

(What is illegal is trying to determine sex of the baby b4 birth)

The main reason for this legalised abortion is that religion(hinduism) does not oppose abortion.....I am not sure so I ask, does christianity oppose abortions ?

 

 

Getting back to the original issue, I would strongly feel against ending the life of even a diseased baby, becoz barring a few conditions there is always hope, and once the baby is born should it not be given a chance to live ?

 

You can end one's life but only by his/her own consent (euthanasia). This would just be murder. No matter how advanced medical science is, how can you trust it enough to tell you that the baby itself would be in suffering, and not just the people who are burdened to take care of it ?

 

I think that if you say that a retarded individual can be "put down", it is not you or a doctor who who has the right to decide that, and such steps should ONLY be taken if the individual, beyond all reasonable doubt ,is in perpetual pain or agony. This is where I must appreciate liberal societies like the Dutch who allow practices such as euthanasia (this wouldn't be much unlike euthanasia).

 

There is an ongoing debate over the ethics of human cloning and genetically engineering test tube babies. I see nothing wrong with either of these issues, especially because of the fact that genetically engineering test tube babies would ensure that such diseased and retarded foetuses would be rejected even before being injected into the whomb. Such a practice would certainly clear out some of the grey areas arising because of abortion.

[Lance]

=I am not sure so I ask' date=' does christianity oppose abortions ?

[/quote']

 

Yes, it is considered wrong by all Christian denominations. Catholics will even go so far as to deem all forms of birth control wrong.

[atinymonkey]

Yes, it is considered wrong by all Christian denominations.

 

That ain't the case. The Anglican Church pretty much left the debate to the people it affected, and apposed the Catholic viewpoint entirely. Mind you, they don't tend to have much of an opinion about anything.

[JaKiri]

Interesting... Do you know what the holocaust started with?

 

Are you familiar with "operation T-4"? It resulted in more than 70' date='000 mentally handicapped children being murdered. The doctors were said to be healing the children by ending the suffering.

 

And of course their actions were justified? right? Right? Right?.?[/quote']

 

Hitler ate breakfast, therefore breakfast is evil.

[atinymonkey]

If your going to keep using that logic, how will I ever get to invade France?

[Lance]

Hitler ate breakfast, therefore breakfast is evil.

 

Oh... forgive me... I assumed it was generally agreed upon that slaughtering 70,000 kids would be evil. Damn my assumptions.

 

 

As evil is a relative term I think it has no part in this conversation.

 

[sarcasm] Hey, but Hitler wasn’t really a bad guy.... what's a few Jews and children anyway? [/sarcasm]

[JaKiri]

The kids don't really apply to this argument, as they've been born; neither does the implied slippery slope of the holocaust thing.

[NavajoEverclear]

Rape, Insest, and if it can be told that the birth could kill the mother(or some type of serious health risk), or that the baby would die soon after birth, are the only cases i consider fully acceptable. In my church those are the only instances when it is considered OK. Otherwise the baby should be delivered, and given for adoption if the parent is not fit to parent the child. I may consider accepting it if before the baby is capable of percieving pain, or before the heart beats. But Even in that case the reason for desiring the abortion is more what i care about.

Lack of responsibility to prevent fertilization does not justify murder.

I most certainly do not think sex is wrong, but it is an act of love, which if results in children should be accepted. It is rare for birth control to fail (well depending on the method)----- i might even propose that people not responsible enough to be parents should not be allowed to have sex that might result in children (planned or not).-------- of coase thats ridiculously proposterous---- for which sake i might consider that if the parents are that irresponsible, maybe it be better the baby not be born, but the abortion should be early as possible.

 

Hey i was just wondering, right now in the U.S., abortion isn't legal right? Is it at least a medical option in the case of rape and such? Whatever the case, those who oppose abortion should accept those exceptions.

[Lance]

Currently, in the states, it is legal throughout all 9 months.

 

Ok, it seems we all think that it becomes unethical at some point, but should there be a law forcing this opinion on other people?

[pulkit]

I do not think such a law would be fair, especially since it is currently legal in sveral places.......There would definately be factions of people supporting it, otherwise it would not have been legal. Banning or controlling it now, would appear like curbing a sort of freedom of choice.