speed-caused gravity?

[Baby Astronaut]

If you were in outer space's low gravity, near an object pretty much your size, and that object's racing around a small track of < 10 foot diameter at say 80% c, would it attract you with a stronger gravitational force than it would've if the object had instead been at rest?

 

You're outside it.

 

Trying to deduce how the equivalence principle works. I'm thinking the object's mass will be "virtually" increased by the speed, and so its gravity would be stronger than if at rest.

[dualitynature]

I don't think so. Gravity is a property of matter energy, as is speed or mass. The gravity wouldn't change, I don't think, unless the actual amount of substance changed as that is the only way that would be to acquire more gravity.

 

However Gravity is electromagnetic in nature, as all things are said to be and operate according to the wave principle the forces can be manipulated quite easily and seem to operate chaotically given the sheer amount of data needed to interpret any given system. So conceivably, since gravity is a wave which is unique in terms of properties but also similar in terms of it being a wave then conceivably, I would think that any wave or electromagnetic energy could affect any other electromagnetic energy in any number of infinite ways.

 

If you think of space as a kind of bubble, rubber sheet, and/or membrane then large objects within that space would distort and effect the entirety of the rest of the space, like adding drops of water to a glass. The drops exists within the medium or "membrane" of a glass of water. The one drop affects the whole system.

 

If an object is rotating it is influencing the shape of it's container or medium and dragging it with it, much like your finger swirling the water around drags water with it as it does so.

 

So Yes I suppose. Idk lol, I just like talking about these things. Hope that help

[Baby Astronaut]

Yeah I also enjoy discussing such matters quite a lot

 

I don't think so. Gravity is a property of matter energy, as is speed or mass. The gravity wouldn't change, I don't think

From the Wikipedia link...

 

The equivalence principle proper was introduced by Albert Einstein in 1907, when he observed that the acceleration of bodies towards the center of the Earth at a rate of 1g (g = 9.81 m/s2 being a standard reference of gravitational acceleration at the Earth's surface) is equivalent to the acceleration of an inertially moving body that would be observed on a rocket in free space being accelerated at a rate of 1g. Einstein stated it thus:

 

"we [...] assume the complete physical equivalence of a gravitational field and a corresponding acceleration of the reference system." (Einstein 1907).

 

That is, being at rest on the surface of the Earth is equivalent to being inside a spaceship (far from any sources of gravity) that is being accelerated by its engines.

The ship's increased gravity is triggered only by acceleration, it seems -- but does that apply only for a person inside? What if they're outside?

 

Anyhow. The ship at the moment of acceleration is going faster than its occupants, any difference between ship and occupant will tend to equalize after the ship's no longer accelerating. So, is the extra gravity caused by the speed difference while accelerating?

 

If the speed difference is, in fact, the responsible variable, then I assume for a person stationed within low gravity near to a quickly moving object, they'd be attracted to it more than if the object had been at rest.

 

If an object is rotating

Just wanna emphasize that the object is racing around a circular track, it's not spinning/rotating. What it's doing, in essence, is revolving 80% c around nothing.

[dualitynature]

yeah i also enjoy discussing such matters quite a lot

 

 

from the wikipedia link...

 

the equivalence principle proper was introduced by albert einstein in 1907, when he observed that the acceleration of bodies towards the center of the earth at a rate of 1g (g = 9.81 m/s2 being a standard reference of gravitational acceleration at the earth's surface) is equivalent to the acceleration of an inertially moving body that would be observed on a rocket in free space being accelerated at a rate of 1g. Einstein stated it thus:

 

"we [...] assume the complete physical equivalence of a gravitational field and a corresponding acceleration of the reference system." (einstein 1907).

 

That is, being at rest on the surface of the earth is equivalent to being inside a spaceship (far from any sources of gravity) that is being accelerated by its engines.

the ship's increased gravity is triggered only by acceleration, it seems -- but does that apply only for a person inside? What if they're outside?

 

Anyhow. The ship at the moment of acceleration is going faster than its occupants, any difference between ship and occupant will tend to equalize after the ship's no longer accelerating. So, is the extra gravity caused by the speed difference while accelerating?

 

If the speed difference is, in fact, the responsible variable, then i assume for a person stationed within low gravity near to a quickly moving object, they'd be attracted to it more than if the object had been at rest.

 

 

just wanna emphasize that the object is racing around a circular track, it's not spinning/rotating. What it's doing, in essence, is revolving 80% c around nothing.

How can there necessarily be nothing? True vacuums are said to not exist and it is apparently inconceivable that the universe has boundaries. More so, I think that what we perceive as nothing is perfect harmony, which is the same as illusion and possibly also a value of 0 in mathematics.

 

Additionally, even though the spaceship may appear to follow a straight course it is actually following that of a curved one as the medium in which the ship resides, or any medium for that matter, is within a spinning system. If attempts are made to travel in a straight line in a spinning system, instead a spiral trajectory appears. Since all circles are similar/proportional, then yes I guess it doesn't seem all that inconceivable that objects with similar speeds would have nearly similar attraction and repulsion properties, however density I think also plays into effect so would have to say, for all intents and purposes that the example given in wikipedia must be a generalization of proportions or ratios and not a specific.

[Akhenaten2]

You both have a strange understanding of gravity and the way things work in general, but the answer is yes the gravitational effects from the object racing round the track, would be significantly increased because at that relativistic speed its mass would have increased perhaps half as much again.

Regards

[Baby Astronaut]

How can there necessarily be nothing?

I meant it's not revolving an object, simply just going in circles on a track under it. Somewhat like a model train. I didn't mean a void.

 

You both have a strange understanding of gravity and the way things work in general..

Can you elaborate which part?

 

Also, thanks.

[J.C.MacSwell]

If you were in outer space's low gravity, near an object pretty much your size, and that object's racing around a small track of < 10 foot diameter at say 80% c, would it attract you with a stronger gravitational force than it would've if the object had instead been at rest?

 

You're outside it.

 

Trying to deduce how the equivalence principle works. I'm thinking the object's mass will be "virtually" increased by the speed, and so its gravity would be stronger than if at rest.

 

Yes.

[ranjan_adarsh]

basically i wouldn't say that there will be any change........... you are kind of mixing general and special theory consequences, When according to special theory, the mass of one will increase, then relatively the mass of other will consequently increase, then it will be upon which of the object has changed its frame of reference.

And according to GTR the gravity influence changes only if the body is accelerating relative to observer, and in this case its 80% c, so basically its not accelerating,

but then we will also have to consider the effects of circular motion, if it is not a constant circular motion results might vary........

[StrontiDog]

If you were in outer space's low gravity, near an object pretty much your size, and that object's racing around a small track of < 10 foot diameter at say 80% c, would it attract you with a stronger gravitational force than it would've if the object had instead been at rest?

 

Simple answer is yes, it would. At 80%C, the object has 1 and 2/3 times the mass it has when it's not relativistic. Your hundred kg ship now has a mass of 166.66667 kg. Its gravitational attraction on objects in the vicinity has increased accordingly.

 

 

 

Pretty straightforward equation.

 

v = 0.8

c = 1.0

m_o = 100 kg.

 

Oh yeah, and it would probably take more energy than exists in the universe to make this happen. The radial acceleration would be enormous. Every picosecond of arc change would take the total energy of our sun--this is a guess, not a calculation. I could be off in either direction by several orders of magnitude and it wouldn't make any difference.

 

Bill Wolfe

[michel123456]

I am always confused with those kind of questions.

I suppose the result must be symmetric. Gravitation must be the same as measured from the FOR of the observator A at rest & for an observator B upon the rotating object.

[swansont]

Bill Wolfe

 

No need to shout. Please use the same size font as everyone else for bulk text.

[ranjan_adarsh]

no i dont think there will be any change, The relativistic mass is said to increase when there is a change in the frame of reference, ie- one object changes frame and moves to another accelerating to 80%c, here there is no change and thus no effect arises,

 

however if you consider the initial condition as the object being at rest, it may change as explained by Strotidog

[StrontiDog]

No need to shout. Please use the same size font as everyone else for bulk text.

 

Sorry, bad eyes, small screen.

 

Size matters?

 

BW

[swansont]

Sorry, bad eyes, small screen.

 

Size matters?

 

BW

 

Then please adjust your browser settings. That will make everyone's font the same size (I have problems with small fonts, too)

[StrontiDog]

Then please adjust your browser settings. That will make everyone's font the same size (I have problems with small fonts, too)

 

 

Will do, boss.

 

BW