Why does speed time slow down when you go fast then the speed of light

[thedarkshade]

Meaningful (IMO) means making sense, fitting logic. But facts (truths) don't necessarily need to fit logic!

[Zephir]

Meaningful (IMO) means making sense, fitting logic. But facts (truths) don't necessarily need to fit logic!

We're talking just about ideas here. If the idea doesn't fit the logic, then here's no way, how to verify it by logical way or to derive a testable predictions by using it. Such idea can still hold the truth, but from utilitarian point of view is meaningless - so that every useful idea should fulfill some rudimentary logic, at least locally, if not correspondence principle. Some ideas can even become harmful with respect of the process of understanding, because they're based on misleading homologies, not analogies - for such ideas is better not to have some logic at all (a Ptolemy's epicycle concept as an example).

 

The ideas can be considered as a density fluctuations of causal space-time, as they're expected to intensify the energy spreading inside the civilization by the same way, like the density fluctuations inside of condensing vapor for example. Therefore if some idea doesn't behave by casual way (it appears as a discontinuity in causal space-time), it cannot be considered as a part of causal reality due its irreproducibility. History knows many poorly substantiated ideas, which were forgotten repeatedly, until somebody created a meaningful theory from them. If some particular idea must be invented repeatedly before using in theory, it has no meaning, it's true, because it can be deduced from anything.

 

My opinion is, every part of observable reality should fit some logic (at least very subtle analogy at the first sight) - or the scientific method cannot be used for testing it.

[Joegocal]

it's impossible because you can never get enough kinetic energy to reach the speed of light.

 

couldnt you just assuming this was possible, become massless. then even the slightest amount of energy would have an undiefinable effect on you?

just putting it out there

[Klaynos]

If you ignore the laws of physics you can do whatever you like....

[mjohnsonuk]

Gravity warps space-time. Satellites orbiting the earth are actually accelerating towards the earth. So time slows with Gravity also.

 

If you were rotating around the earth much like the satellites in the above quotation say in a spacestation for many years would more time pass on earth that eventually it would become apparent?

Eg the astronaught on the above spacestation had a twin brother born 2 mins apart. The astronaught went on the space station aged 18 and stayed on it until he was 68. When he returned would he technically be younger than his twin (by the 7% mentioned earlier due to time dilation)

sorry in advance if this is a stupid question I was just looking to test the idea of lightspeed without going into the whole building a warp speed engine (velocity and mass side of things)

[Spyman]

Combining the time dilation and gravitational frequency shift, clocks on the GPS satellites tick approximately 38 μs/day faster than clocks on the ground or in GPS receivers. Without correcting for these effects, errors in position determination of roughly 10 km/day would accumulate, resulting in a worthless system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_relativity_on_GPS

[Chriton]

Surely the speed of light is relative...If I was in a craft that was traveling close to the speed of light and inside that craft I found a way to travel close to the speed of light and so on...Then the speed of light would only be relative to my environment, or would the external speed of light limit how fast I could travel?

[toastywombel]

Surely the speed of light is relative...If I was in a craft that was traveling close to the speed of light and inside that craft I found a way to travel close to the speed of light and so on...Then the speed of light would only be relative to my environment, or would the external speed of light limit how fast I could travel?

 

The speed of light is always constant 'c'. So no matter how fast you are going the speed of light is 'c'. Imagine. If you were in a craft travelling at the speed of light time would begin to slow down. Here is a good video that helps explain relativity.

[Chriton]

But time for you would not slow down, only time realitive to external things, your time would be exactly the same, so 'c' would be normal for you in a craft traveling at the speed of light, so my question is...could I then travel at the speed of light again in my craft?

[toastywombel]

Time would slow down for someone going that fast comparative to time on earth. You are correct, to the person travelling the speed of light, time would seem normal. The reason time is different though is because the speed of light is constant. If two observers have to agree on speed they must disagree on time or distance. But no, if you were in a craft going the speed of light and tried taking off at the speed of light you would still remain at the constant. It would not be double the speed of light

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

But time for you would not slow down, only time realitive to external things, your time would be exactly the same, so 'c' would be normal for you in a craft traveling at the speed of light, so my question is...could I then travel at the speed of light again in my craft?

Depends on from whose reference frame you're looking. If your craft is going nearly the speed of light (it could never reach the speed of light), you could travel inside it at near the speed of light relative to the craft -- but someone outside watching would look at things differently.

[Chriton]

Are you sure "Toasty"? Inside the craft you could move realative to your envirnovent...That could be twice the speed of light relative to the external observer??

Is the speed of light the same in a craft traveling at the speed of light????

[mooeypoo]

But time for you would not slow down, only time realitive to external things, your time would be exactly the same, so 'c' would be normal for you in a craft traveling at the speed of light, so my question is...could I then travel at the speed of light again in my craft?

Yes (well, not *at* the speed of light.. very close to it, though, theoretically).

But you would not travel at that speed to an outside observer.

 

Here's the crux of it:

 

You stand on 'firm ground' (for our purposes, that's the "rest frame") and you look at me, sitting on a train moving at 50mph. If I start running on that in speed (relative to me) of 20mph, then *for you*, I am moving at 70mph.

 

However, if you look at my almost-light-speed-rocket, and inside it I try to run at the speed of light relative to me, *for you* I will not run at twice the speed of light. The relative speeds will cause my time to move slower, which would compensate for the speed.

 

I hope that makes it a bit clearer.

 

 

 

 

 

And, just a small point, light can travel at different speeds than "C", it just can't go faster than c.

 

~moo

[Janus]

Are you sure "Toasty"? Inside the craft you could move realative to your envirnovent...That could be twice the speed of light relative to the external observer??

Is the speed of light the same in a craft traveling at the speed of light????

 

Velocities do not add linearly, but by the equation

 

[math]w= \frac{u+v}{1+\frac{uv}{c^2}}[/math]

 

So for example, if the craft were moving at .99c relative to the external observer, and you where moving at .99c relative to the ship, the external observer would measure your velocity as 0.9999494975c

 

For the example of 50 mph and 20 mph, the answer comes out to 69.99989546 mph, Which differs from 70 mph by only 6.6236 inches per hour. So you can see why before Relativity we thought velocities added linearly.

[theoriginal169]

if i have a 0.9c of speed and have 10^^45 g my clock is slower than 0.9c without any g?

[swansont]

if i have a 0.9c of speed and have 10^^45 g my clock is slower than 0.9c without any g?

 

Yes. The exact difference depends on the gravitational potential.

[theoriginal169]

Yes. The exact difference depends on the gravitational potential.

 

is there any limit for g

[ranjan_adarsh]

look yamum, simply understand one thing- When you talk about near light velocities, your general idea of space time or your logic or your self reasoning which is described by newtionian mechanics fails.

Consider it similar to thinking about the end point or horizon of our universe.

[ErickChavo55]

It all really comes down to einsteins equation E=mc2. What the equation states is that energy and mass are the same thing just in a different state. So when you increase energy you also increase the mass and when you increase the mass you increase the energy.... So, say you have a 100 pound man and he is stationary, but then the man starts moving which now adds kinetic energy (energy is energy no matter what kind). Once the man started to move his energy increased which led to an increase of mass.... Now if the man was moving at 100km/h the increase in mass would be something like .000000001g, its literally nothing, right? But say if that same 100ib man was moving at close to the speed of light his mass would be much greater because he has so much kinetic energy. And what happens when something gets more massive?...... It slows down. Every atom in your body would get heavier so would all your neurons in your brain so even your thinking would slow down and you wouldn't be able to feel the effects of time dilation because everything would seem that it was moving at normal speed when in reality it has been slowed down substantially just like you.....,

[swansont]

It all really comes down to einsteins equation E=mc2. What the equation states is that energy and mass are the same thing just in a different state. So when you increase energy you also increase the mass and when you increase the mass you increase the energy.... So, say you have a 100 pound man and he is stationary, but then the man starts moving which now adds kinetic energy (energy is energy no matter what kind). Once the man started to move his energy increased which led to an increase of mass.... Now if the man was moving at 100km/h the increase in mass would be something like .000000001g, its literally nothing, right? But say if that same 100ib man was moving at close to the speed of light his mass would be much greater because he has so much kinetic energy. And what happens when something gets more massive?...... It slows down. Every atom in your body would get heavier so would all your neurons in your brain so even your thinking would slow down and you wouldn't be able to feel the effects of time dilation because everything would seem that it was moving at normal speed when in reality it has been slowed down substantially just like you.....,

 

Relativity actually says no such thing. Mass is a form of energy, but the equation for mechanical systems is E^2 = p^2c^2 + m^2c^4

 

IOW, there is a clear demarcation between the energy of motion (which is included in the momentum term) and the mass, the combination of which give you the total energy.

[general1]

I got this concept of time dilation like a brick upside the head one day. I was reading about one of the smallest units of time that we all use.it is the second and how we derive at one second.an atomic clock uses a laser beam to vibrate an atom 9 billion times. This is one second in an atomic clock. If you put the clock in a high gravitational field or accelerate it through space like putting it on an air plane the laser still vibrates the atom 9 billion times.it just vibrates the atom slower because it is traveling through space faster in the plane than if it were sitting still on earth.one earth second is like 10 thousand years near the center of the galaxy. If you were at the center of the galaxy you would not be able to tell the slow down and you would still measure the speed of light the same as you did on earth.it is just that everything slowed down even the laser slowed down just not as much as your atoms.

[swansont]

Actually the signal that makes the atom "vibrate" is microwave, not a laser. Lasers are used in some clocks, but not for the "clock transition" in cesium.

[general1]

I am sure you are correct about the microwave.do you think my explanation paints a good picture of time dilation. I thought this might help people understand it better. a micro wave still travels at the speed of light just not the same frequency

[SamBridge]

Do we have an actual explanation yet? It seems like a circle, like "the speed of light is always light, therefore length must contract and time dilates-'but why is it always the speed of light?' because length contracts and time dilates."

You can correct me if I am wrong, but I postulate that since the speed of light is the "ultimate" speed, and there is nothing limiting how fast time may naturally flow to an observer but by our definition nothing may travel faster than light, that the ultimate rate that time "flows at" must be the speed of light, the rate at which the component of space-time, space, measures changes in events relative to an axis perpendicular to it, time, is always the speed of light, and therefore as you increase the velocity, or distance over time which is the change in distance over space divided by the change in the distance on a perpendicular axis of time, you are in effect decreasing the difference between your own measured change in distance over time and the change in distance over time of a point in time in any giving point of space-time to space.

To put it more simply, if you imagine time itself as car A, and you are car B traveling at 99% the speed of light trying to catch up, then relative to time which is Car B, your velocity is 1% the speed of light, the difference the rate of the change in events of space over time to your own relative change in position over time is actually 1% the speed of light. With this in mind, I wonder if there is some way to use an axis rotation to explain this difference via the Lorentz Transformation.

The only other question is then, why can't you actually accelerate to the flow rate of time? I'll take a shot at it, though it won't be a complete answer, it doesn't explain why we see the specific hyperbolic curve we see in Lorentz transformations.

Because your acceleration is already based on the difference of your velocity to the flow rate of time, and if you traveled at the same rate as time, you would no longer have change in distance over change in time since from your relative view, time is not moving any faster or slower than you, like if the two cars were both moving at the same speed, one would not notice events passing differently to the other, you would in effect have a change in space over 1, so you would somehow be traveling an amount of space without time passing, which is impossible because in order to travel through space you must travel distance over a period of time. I suppose you could hypothetically teleport like a quantum particle, but that's not really "traveling".

And then even if you answer that, there is still yet another question: why the exact speed that light has? Why not any other speed? My guess is that after a certain point in science in explaining the universe, you get to a point where something happens because it just can't happen any other way. A=A, but why does A=A? I don't know, that's just logically how it is, why does 1+1=2? If you mark one element as a and mark another element as b, and add a+b, you get a+b=a+b, and if a=1 and b=1, you have 1+1=1+1, and by our definition of the number two, 1+1=2, just reflexive definitions of logic that go no where ultimately, so the answer must ultimately lie in number theory, why certain constants worked out the way they did due to mathematical logic of values that exist.

Edited May 22, 2013 by SamBridge

[general1]

The speed of light can not be the speed of time because time is just motion of matter in space and motion of matter is different(relative)all over the universe. if you were traveling at a high rate of speed close to the speed of light you would actually be getting really close to catching up to a light beam although you would not notice it because all of the speed that you gained would have also slowed all of your atoms down as well . you will always measure the speed of light the same even if your almost going as fast as it.