Faster than light communication???

[ydoaPs]

have several atoms represent a 1 or 0. change something that can be observed without disturbing the atoms.

[ydoaPs]

or have something like two sets of entangled gasses and make 4 plasma display moniters with them. have one of each set of moniters with a camera hooked to it. then you could send and recieve video messeges at the same time. or instead of a camera you could use a keyboard.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

It's considerably more complicated than that. You can't "monitor" the spin without affecting the outcome. If the spins of the the atoms that Alice and Bob have are entangled, and Alice knows the spin of A, then Bob's spin will have a definite value. But what happens if Bob measures first? Then the A spin will be set by the measurement of B.

I'm sorry, I don't understand that. Are you saying that if Bob measures it before Alice, then it will change Alice's? What?

 

AFAIK, once you make the measurement, the entanglement is done. You aren't changing the spin to send information, you are encoding the spin.

So once you measure it, they are "unentangled"?

[pulkit]

You can't ignore the most basic principle of quantum mechanics -- Heisenberg's Principle, i.e., the very nature of observation WILL change that which is being observed.....so I really don't see any of the encoding schemes working.

[ydoaPs]

or have something like two sets of entangled gasses and make 4 plasma display moniters with them. have one of each set of moniters with a camera hooked to it. then you could send and recieve video messeges at the same time. or instead of a camera you could use a keyboard.

 

would the heisenburg uncertainty principle work there? i don't think it would

[pulkit]

Sending and recieving video is the part to be noted. For this you would need light, and when light is shone on atoms it changes their properties like momentum and energy. The Heisenberg principle would again come into the picture.

[ydoaPs]

i thought the atoms are exited creating the light.

[pulkit]

One of the ways that the Heisenberg principle was explained to us in school was to take an atom and hypthetically observe it by shining a photon of light on it. You could then by purely theoretical arguements show that the Heisenberg Principle in its mathematical form would hold true.

[ydoaPs]

but u aren't shining light on it. it is making the light. and the quantities of gas are too large.

[pulkit]

1.You have a large quantity of gas.

2.Some atoms are excited and they produce light.

 

That is about ebough to interact with other atoms.........its no use getting confused, its as simple as this, if u observe you HAVE to disturb, there are no two ways about it.

[ydoaPs]

but this is not observing the atoms.

[pulkit]

If you are not observing, how else will you get back your message ?

The only way to code n decode is to some how interact with the atoms which would count as an observation.

[ydoaPs]

the change in atoms is one way. no one observes them, they only observe the light emmitted by them.

[5614]

i think the question which needs to be answered is, does quantum teleportation [via quantum entaglement]... or well... ok..... is quantum entaglement over a certain distance, or is the distance over which it happens limited?

~

once that is known we can know whether atoms could be "transported" instantainously [however u spell it!]

[ydoaPs]

afaik, the entanglement has to start when they are close togather, but then can have any distance between them.

[Sayonara]

Oh for the love of god, just use a microwormhole.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

And how do you propose to make one?

[ydoaPs]

good question

[swansont]

I'm sorry' date=' I don't understand that. Are you saying that if Bob measures it before Alice, then it will change Alice's? What?

 

...

 

So once you measure it, they are "unentangled"?[/quote']

 

If you have an entangled pair, but in an unknown state, whoever measures first will determine the states. Once you have done the measurement, they are no longer entangled, AFAIK. You don't take a particle of known spin alignment and change it and have that information transferred. What you have is an entangled pair, and when you measure one particle you know the other particle's state instantly, even if it's far away. But you can't communicate that information to anyone else faster than c.

[ydoaPs]

so, the atoms are only entangled until they are disurbed? I was under the impression that if you disturbed one, the other would be disturbed in the same fashion.

[Sayonara]

And how do you propose to make one?

This is coming from someone who wants to fly use-once entangled atoms across the universe.

[NavajoEverclear]

Originally Posted by Edward

P.S. Does anyone belive that the methodes of communication used in the enders game novels could work?

 

 

 

how is it supposed to work?

 

I dont know if it ever explains, i think i remember reading an article in which Orson admitted only creating the ansible for the convience of the concept. But anyway, the ansible technology was taken from the Buggers, so that could explain more for why they dont really understand how it works. It just does.

[Skoteinos]

You can't use todays method of quantum entanglement to send information at tachyon speeds.

 

Quantum entanglement works of the principle that since you can't observe a particle without changing it, don't look at it at all, look at a particle thats related to it and see the difference between the two, then you send the difference to the receiving end by conventional means, and the other side modifys the entangled particle to cause the related particle to have the exact same properties as the particle you wanted to send.

 

Basically its a loophole in Heisenburg's Principle, and thats how they teleported a SINGLE photon. Problem is that though the tranfer was instantaneous, the information to cause the transfer is stuck a the speed of light, and you can't change that. Hence, teleportation is firmly grounded at the speed of light...for now. Even though the lovable properties of Quantum entanglement allow instantaneous information transfer because in the quantum world the particles are in the same place (0 time to send information), Quantum Entanglement won't work without sending the information about the difference between the related particle and the particle to transfer. And at the moment, photons have been transfered, the information to transfer it was sent at lightspeed (minus the extra time to send through routers )

 

The premise of Ender's Game was that ansible connection was based of String Theory Extrapolation, right now we don't know much at all about how the String Theory would work for such things as instantaneous information transfer (though i'm sure some people are working very hard on just such a thing).

 

Entanglement occurs when in a particle accelerator two photons begin from the same origin and shoot of opposite each other, Hence entanglement is more pronounced since they're life consisted of that moment mainly.

 

In Technicality quantum entanglement is between every particle in the universe, its just so completely diluted because of all the events occuring in the universe itself.

 

The Quantum Entanglement of today is quite useless for information transfer, but quite useful for particle transfer, aka teleportation, though we're only at the stage of 1 to a few particles (photons/atoms?)

 

instantaneous information transfer has a ways to go.

[unknow force]

Interesting, but remember that the world works by steps (quantic packs), the atoms, light, etc.. moves instantanely (micro) betwen thats steps, in macro there the light speed, if you can enlarge the cuantical "stair", in theory you can travel more fast than the light, i dont remember well but i guess that an german experiment with lasers reach that hyperlight speed (with information).

[ydoaPs]

Interesting, but remember that the world works by steps (quantic packs), the atoms, light, etc.. moves instantanely (micro) betwen thats steps, in macro there the light speed, if you can enlarge the cuantical "stair", in theory you can travel more fast than the light, i dont remember well but i guess that an german experiment with lasers reach that hyperlight speed (with information).

 

what the hell did you just say? I have read the majority of your posts, and none of them make sense.