Bignose Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 These three (crude) drawings should explain it all.
Bignose Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 If I was at a stationary distance of jupiter. give it an hour, what speed will I be traveling towards the sun? Say 100 MPH Thats what gafferuk is on about. I would of thought an clever guy like yourself would of thought this. Then what speed is jupiter traveling at? Say 1000 MPH Nevertheless, you used the language COMPLETELY wrong. You HAVE to use the language correctly if you want to describe physics. Just like you have to speak the same language of the person who is listening, otherwise you won't be able to describe anything. And please don't (thinly veil) insult to me. I never insulted you at all. I have been very cordial.
sciencemaster Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 (edited) [ATTACH]2419[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]2420[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]2421[/ATTACH] These three (crude) drawings should explain it all. I would love to see a youtube video of a real situation. If i jump on earth at angle of 45deg then gravity changes me in both x and y direction, so how can an angle of 90deg change this when to comes to planets. You pctures look pretty and all but reality says somethings else when holding a magnet while spining a magnetic ball on a string. Merged post follows: Consecutive posts mergedNevertheless, you used the language COMPLETELY wrong. You HAVE to use the language correctly if you want to describe physics. Just like you have to speak the same language of the person who is listening, otherwise you won't be able to describe anything. And please don't (thinly veil) insult to me. I never insulted you at all. I have been very cordial. Sorry. Edited February 21, 2010 by sciencemaster Consecutive posts merged.
Sayonara Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 If i jump on earth at angle of 45deg then gravity changes me in both x and y direction, so how can an angle of 90deg change this when to comes to planets. Sciencemaster (or Gaffer, whatever your name is)... remember when I asked you if you knew about vectors? I will try and explain it in those terms. A vector is the result of one or more directional changes. So if you are moving parallel to the ground, that's a change in the X direction. Let's say you are also moving upwards at the same time. We'll call that a change in the Y direction. For simplicity we'll assume your velocity forwards is constant, and so is your velocity upwards. Imagine that your position in both X and Y are mapped on a graph. The line which shows your position will be some sort of diagonal, won't it? That's a vector representing your position changing over time, in two axes. It's the result of adding both the horizontal and vertical 'journeys' together. You actually travel along a diagonal path, but the components of that path are a horizontal journey and a vertical journey. What people are trying to explain to you is that the gravitational field of the planet will affect 'you'. But it will only affect your velocity in that Y axis. It won't change your velocity in the X axis. What you see on the graph when you take gravity into account is that your positions in the X axis over time will remain the same as they did on the first graph. However, because you are taking acceleration due to gravity into account, your position on the Y axis will change over time such that the diagonal becomes a curve. Forces in the same axis add or subtract on paper because the forces are actually adding to each other or working against each other in reality. Two forces can't add or subtract on paper if they are at right angles together for the simple reason that they don't add or subtract in reality. Current theories explain this adequately and are demonstrated with ample evidence. If you want to replace those theories then your version needs to be a better (ideally more parsimonious) explanation which is a better fit for all recorded tests.
sciencemaster Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 Sciencemaster (or Gaffer, whatever your name is)... remember when I asked you if you knew about vectors? I will try and explain it in those terms. A vector is the result of one or more directional changes. So if you are moving parallel to the ground, that's a change in the X direction. Let's say you are also moving upwards at the same time. We'll call that a change in the Y direction. For simplicity we'll assume your velocity forwards is constant, and so is your velocity upwards. Imagine that your position in both X and Y are mapped on a graph. The line which shows your position will be some sort of diagonal, won't it? That's a vector representing your position changing over time, in two axes. It's the result of adding both the horizontal and vertical 'journeys' together. You actually travel along a diagonal path, but the components of that path are a horizontal journey and a vertical journey. What people are trying to explain to you is that the gravitational field of the planet will affect 'you'. But it will only affect your velocity in that Y axis. It won't change your velocity in the X axis. What you see on the graph when you take gravity into account is that your positions in the X axis over time will remain the same as they did on the first graph. However, because you are taking acceleration due to gravity into account, your position on the Y axis will change over time such that the diagonal becomes a curve. Forces in the same axis add or subtract on paper because the forces are actually adding to each other or working against each other in reality. Two forces can't add or subtract on paper if they are at right angles together for the simple reason that they don't add or subtract in reality. Current theories explain this adequately and are demonstrated with ample evidence. If you want to replace those theories then your version needs to be a better (ideally more parsimonious) explanation which is a better fit for all recorded tests. youtube, youtube, we want youtube. A real live situation. Does a space satalite stay in orbit wthout assistance?
Bignose Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 youtube, youtube, we want youtube. A real live situation. Does a space satalite stay in orbit wthout assistance? You don't need youtube... again look at this: http://www.arachnoid.com/gravitation/ And yes, once the space shuttle is up high enough with the correct velocity, then it stays up there without assistance. The moon stays up there without assistance.
sciencemaster Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 (edited) You don't need youtube... again look at this: http://www.arachnoid.com/gravitation/ And yes, once the space shuttle is up high enough with the correct velocity, then it stays up there without assistance. The moon stays up there without assistance. So height is a requirement? Are there weight requirements? I want a real video of real life, not a java simulation. So satalites orbit the earth at a rotation velocity different from the earth. They fly all round us. So a european satalit flyies all around the world but is called european? I thought they stayed above us. So in-car GPS positioning is more clever than I thought. Edited February 21, 2010 by sciencemaster
insane_alien Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 why don't you just stop trolling and bugger off?
sciencemaster Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 why don't you just stop trolling and bugger off? You just can't resist reading this thread. Its tempting to stop, but this feeling of not knowing whats within tempts you more till you just can;t stop!
insane_alien Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 i think we've made it clear you're not welcome here anymore. quit your trolling.
sciencemaster Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 i think we've made it clear you're not welcome here anymore. quit your trolling. Since my belief of not believing in newton is a scientific one, I just can't stop. insane_alien lets talk enertia. How fast can a car turn right at a mini roundabout?
insane_alien Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 quit your trolling and bugger off is how fast.
sciencemaster Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 You just can't stop! How fast can a car turn right at a mini roundabout?
Bignose Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 I want a real video of real life, not a java simulation. And exactly how do you propose to do this? There aren't cameras out there above the orbital plane videotaping the Earth going around the Sun. Simulation is going to be the best you are going to get. The fact that simulations match exactly what is observed has to mean something. Those models are very accurate, and the nice thing about the model I gave you a link to is that you can play with the things like position (height), mass (weight) and velocity. You can stop the simulation and change the mass, position, or velocity of any object in the simulation.
sciencemaster Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 And exactly how do you propose to do this? There aren't cameras out there above the orbital plane videotaping the Earth going around the Sun. Simulation is going to be the best you are going to get. The fact that simulations match exactly what is observed has to mean something. Those models are very accurate, and the nice thing about the model I gave you a link to is that you can play with the things like position (height), mass (weight) and velocity. You can stop the simulation and change the mass, position, or velocity of any object in the simulation. Im a programmer, ive played with quite a few physics simulation engines in my time, though they look real. They only look real compared to things on earth. Planet sizes don't add up. So as there is no video, this has never been proven? Do satalites stay above us or do they go around the planet? Merged post follows: Consecutive posts mergedStill want to know what is the fastest one can drive a car turning right at a mini roundabout.
insane_alien Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 mods, come on! ban him already we know he does nothing but troll
sciencemaster Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 mods, come on! ban him already we know he does nothing but troll Stop, Stop, you just can't what?
Sayonara Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 Planet sizes don't add up. So as there is no video, this has never been proven? Planetary orbits can be both directly observed, and accurately simulated. So what's your point? That your ignorance of the data refutes it?
Klaynos Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 If i jump on earth at angle of 45deg then gravity changes me in both x and y direction, so how can an angle of 90deg change this when to comes to planets. No, it doesn't a secondary education in physics should have taught you this and made you do experiments in it.
Moontanman Posted February 21, 2010 Posted February 21, 2010 ewwww I wrestled a troll, he confused me and won I feel dirty, I need a hot shower
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