Time travelling

[Stumblebum]

Oh, I dunno. You might be a little older, like a guy coming out of a coma. As I said, its just a thought, possibly indicating the futility of reverse time travel.

 

I would certainly love to see the massive calculations required in order to hit a specific event back in time.

[Ophiolite]

I would certainly love to see the massive calculations required in order to hit a specific event back in time.

You have to hit the event in space too, and that is where relative to now?

[Severian]

I think that is a nice point Ophiolite. Even if one could travel back in time to for example, see Christ on the cross, you would need to pick a spacial coordinate too. But where would Jersusalem in 33AD actually be? You would need to take into account the rotation of the Earth, the Earth going round the sun, the roatation of the galaxy and ultimately the Hubble flow of the universe!

 

So even if you did somehow manage to invent a time machine, you would probably pop out in deep space....

[Stumblebum]

Here's a different take, if a time traveller was to go into the past by surpassing lightspeed he might end up in the future. On acceleration he/she would eventually have to pass through the light barrier where time and distance mean nothing. Upon deceleration he/she would also have to make the same pass. So, all that travelling placed him/her at the light barrier twice, if only for a moment. So as he/she further decelerates to a stop there is advancement into the future.

 

Maybe the only way to get into the past by exceeding c is to never slow down to lightspeed once past it. Don't think you would see much or even know. Don't take this post too serious, its just for fun.

[RICHARDBATTY]

I think that is a nice point Ophiolite. Even if one could travel back in time to for example' date=' see Christ on the cross, you would need to pick a spacial coordinate too. But where would Jersusalem in 33AD actually be? You would need to take into account the rotation of the Earth, the Earth going round the sun, the roatation of the galaxy and ultimately the Hubble flow of the universe!

 

So even if you did somehow manage to invent a time machine, you would probably pop out in deep space....[/quote']

I wondered about this too but would the point at which you exist not rewind with time. I know that sounds wierd. Also if you appear at a point where you previously did not exist what about the matter/energy that exists at that point. You would either merge with it or it would have to be moved faster than light. HELLP.

[RICHARDBATTY]

I think this is where motionless time travel is not possible and travel to the past is not possible. An object traveling into the future will always be at the point its past determined. The object doesn't yet exist in the future so when a course of action is taken it results in the future if motion is used. A jump to a past/future point in time without motion would mean something would have to move to allow you to exist as would a trip to the past using motion.

[Stumblebum]

I agree that time travel into the past is impossible. However, if we exist at a point on a giant time loop then maybe yes, going forward the only way to find out.

[RICHARDBATTY]

I agree that time travel into the past is impossible. However, if we exist at a point on a giant time loop then maybe yes, going forward the only way to find out.

Do you mean travel forward far enough and you will get to the past.

[Stumblebum]

Yes. Don't know the mechanics of it but it seemed reasonable to assume it could happen.

[MadScientist]

Yes. Don't know the mechanics of it but it seemed reasonable to assume it could happen.

 

I thought about this, you need a universe that repeats itself. Either everything collapses into black holes or bounces off the edge of the universe or whatever. Just find a way of surviving that and the big bang and you're set.

 

Small problem though, if the matter you and your ship are made from aren't present during the next big bang it won't happen like it did the time before. So the Earth wouldn't be formed. Which kinda messes things up a little.

[RICHARDBATTY]

Yes. Don't know the mechanics of it but it seemed reasonable to assume it could happen.

Well even if it were possible you would still arrive at a point where something already happened or existed so I don't think it would help. But thats just my opinion.

[Stumblebum]

To Mad S.- I don't think it would mess it up because if everything is repeating then it stands to reason that the trip into the past was done before. So your matter would have been present once before. In other words you & your spaceship were supposed to be there because it did happen once before. Hope I'm making sense.

[MadScientist]

To Mad S.- I don't think it would mess it up because if everything is repeating then it stands to reason that the trip into the past was done before. So your matter would have been present once before. In other words you & your spaceship were supposed to be there because it did happen once before. Hope I'm making sense.

 

The way I see it - if you make a cake then reduce it to its smallest elements, remove just some of those elements and try to make the exact same cake, you couldn't.

[Stumblebum]

You're right but let's say that a time traveller creates the temporal loop. He goes past the end and ends up at the beginning which as you stated is not the same as the original. But from now on it will be as the sequence is repeated ad infinitum. I'm not disagreeing with, just trying to make it more interesting.

[jeftones]

Yes. Don't know the mechanics of it but it seemed reasonable to assume it could happen.

 

I can't see that happen, first it would mean that our lifes are dictated by a preset fate that could not be changed, and that the travelling in time was set out for us to do if we did it, and we would have lived our exact same lives an infinite times - and will to the end of time.. - the explanation reviels itself by reading this post..

 

I don't see time travel this way because it would mean that the dimension of time is bent in a loop like manner, this would indicate that the expanson of the universe would suddently start as the big bang once again with the blink of an eye.

Or the universe would expand then later collaps in the big crunch until reaching the point of a singularity then start the precise same big bang again resetting time, exploding in the same way - and every particle moving in the exact same way and so on (this was what i ment in the intro - with predictated fate). This seems very unlikely next to a new big bang continuing time where it was left, exploding in a new way, particles and atoms flying in random ways and setteling in (most likely) new ways. The universe have always seemed to have acted in a rational/orderly way.. excecpt from singularities where everything stop making sense.. What happens there could actually prove you right!, but then again it could prove everyone's wild ideers right...

 

The other possibility would be that as you travel forward in time you would first pass points in the future time, and as you travel on you would pass the same points once again, then pass the point where you first started out, then passing points in the past.. This would indicate that the expansion of the universe would end in the big crunch, and that the big crunch would some how reverse the the arrow of time to make eveything act in a reverse way... like first you die, then you get younger and younger until you are born and so on.. but then again you would only be able to go as far back as to the time when you were born (actually to the time when you entered your timemachine,... but then you would have seen the future)... If you then somehow find a way to become static, so that it was not you moving in the in the dimensions of space and time, but they were moving for you to see from your static place at a safe distance, you would be able to watch as time enter "your" past from your point of view... Right now it seems more unlikely than likely, because it somehow seems very disordered in a universe that tries to make order..

 

 

Pardon my english... it's not my mother tongue... hope you can understand my view on the matter.

[Stumblebum]

I'm not advocating a cyclical repetitive universe, just introducing it into the conversation. I don't know how we would ever know if the universe was cyclical or repetitive. I don't agree when you say the universe tries to make order unless chaos is a form of order but that's another topic. Time remains an enigma but these forums are a good place to put down an idea which perhaps may lead to a better understanding of it.

 

Here is another reason I don't think reverse time travel is possible. What if millions of people owned a tt machine and they all at once decided to go back in time to a specific recorded event such as the Wright Brothers first flight? Does history record millions of spectators at Kitty Hawk?

[jeftones]

Yes thats a good point... and why have nobody (what we are aware of) not visited us from the future... I would imagine that if time travel to the past was possible, it has to have strict rules and be conducted in a manner that would prevent us from interfering with the past. All matter may have a time signature that prevents it from colliding with matter with another time signature... Like the past can not interfere with our time... We would not suddently read news in the history books - that would be odd..

 

Who knows if we are actually in the past, and the future we have not yet reached is being acted out as we speak... acted out in the exact 3 dimensional space as we occupy.. maybe right next to you, even on top of you and through you...

 

This whole theory would not seem to work, because it suggest that if you cannot see and collide with matter with another time signature, then you were to find the absolute definition of nothing if you went travelling in time...

 

So maybe this is another thought we can rule out...

[Stumblebum]

I think all we can hope for is that over the eons a nomadic race of intelligent beings has been recording Earth's history as they whip around the universe at close to lightspeed. Perhaps someday they will share it with us. And now....more nonsense!

 

If time is a river, are we going with or against the current? Or are we standing in the river while it flows by? Is the future upstream or downstream from us? Personally I think the future would be upstream flowing towards me if I was standing still, thereby making the past downstream. But nothing is at rest in the universe so technically I am in motion but would the time river be also? Which direction am I swimming to move forward in time, upstream or down?

[1veedo]

time always moves at 10^-43

 

also, time is 2D in most cases, so the river example isnt very good. In quantum mechanics for instance, one of the uncertainty principles concerns the enrgy of a particle and its time stating

 

delta(e) * delta(t) > h

 

go figure

[[Tycho?]]

time always moves at 10^-43

 

also' date=' time is 2D in most cases, so the river example isnt very good. In quantum mechanics for instance, one of the uncertainty principles concerns the enrgy of a particle and its time stating

 

delta(e) * delta(t) > h

 

go figure [/quote']

 

Really. I'd be interested to see what units the movement of time are measured in, as well I'd like to see a credible source from whence you got this number, as well as an explanation for the statement "time is 2d in most cases".

[T-77]

Time das not exist universaly only on earth couse we created.

So we we are saying that 1 hour is 60 min and 1 min is 60 sec and so on.

if we whanna created time machine we must start think out of the box!

Not like on earth but universaly otherwise we will never gona got to that point

to build one.

Why mathematicly it might be immpossible to biuld such machine that would be able to travel speed of lite 160 000 m/per sec.

Ya the all kay is in speed and as we know speed of lite is the fastest for us couse we do not know other.

the point??

we are in time machine! right now and everyday and if one of us can go truth that day faster than the others than the (He/she)traveling to the future!

So if are time is 24 h. one day then 240 h. is 10 days. So we all traveling to our time 24 h/per 24 hours-(86400/sec) 86400 time 10=864000 sec/per 24 hours.=10 days/per 24h!!! so far with me???

 

That is: 276480000000 miles/per 24 hours WOW!!! (160 000 m/per sec)

Can we build such machine?? No !!

But do we use suche machine on everyday life basis?? YES!!! The light!!!!

The point????

 

If we would be able to send Camera roling in form electrons example (FAX)around the globe for 24 hours Imagine 4 huge mirors around the globe in space distance of satelite so woud not have to be in deep space and lite betven those mirors evkos with camera roling would travel for 24 hours strait.!! than we have movie of the ares earth for next 10 days we know now if there is mager huricane and where!! Or huge asteroid next than 10 days wil araive and so on!!!

 

thing about that

 

 

PS:Sory for my engl.

[[Tycho?]]

You fail.

[T-77]

ok no problem

[MadScientist]

Time das not exist universaly only on earth couse we created.

So we we are saying that 1 hour is 60 min and 1 min is 60 sec and so on.

if we whanna created time machine we must start think out of the box!

Not like on earth but universaly otherwise we will never gona got to that point

to build one.

Why mathematicly it might be immpossible to biuld such machine that would be able to travel speed of lite 160 000 m/per sec.

Ya the all kay is in speed and as we know speed of lite is the fastest for us couse we do not know other.

the point??

we are in time machine! right now and everyday and if one of us can go truth that day faster than the others than the (He/she)traveling to the future!

So if are time is 24 h. one day then 240 h. is 10 days. So we all traveling to our time 24 h/per 24 hours-(86400/sec) 86400 time 10=864000 sec/per 24 hours.=10 days/per 24h!!! so far with me???

 

That is: 276480000000 miles/per 24 hours WOW!!! (160 000 m/per sec)

Can we build such machine?? No !!

But do we use suche machine on everyday life basis?? YES!!! The light!!!!

The point????

 

If we would be able to send Camera roling in form electrons example (FAX)around the globe for 24 hours Imagine 4 huge mirors around the globe in space distance of satelite so woud not have to be in deep space and lite betven those mirors evkos with camera roling would travel for 24 hours strait.!! than we have movie of the ares earth for next 10 days we know now if there is mager huricane and where!! Or huge asteroid next than 10 days wil araive and so on!!!

 

thing about that

 

 

PS:Sory for my engl.

 

I've got to agree with T-77 on his idea that we are living inside the time machine right now and that we've got to start thinking outside the box. Given the size of the universe it's a BIG box to think outside of.

 

I think what T-77 is trying to describe is a means of looking into the future by sending something there but how would you send the signal back in time to you??

Read on...

 

 

 

The only way I can ever see us being able to travel faster into the future is using a really fast space ship which is pointless IMO because it would be easier to perfect cryogenic suspension.

 

But for the big one - the only way I can ever see us travelling backwards in time is by learning how to convert matter into energy well enough to be able to do it with a full human being. We'd need to invent a molecular transmission system or something like that...

Then tachyons need to be discovered and how to convert the energy sent as a molecular transmission into tachyons so the energy a human has been converted to can travel faster than light and backwards in time...

 

So we'd need a biological molecular to energy convertor, a transmission system for that energy and a convertor to reconstruct the human from the energy.

 

That is gonna be TOUGH!!! The conversion from matter to energy would HAVE to be absolutely instantaneous!!!

If it converted from top to bottom or vice versa or in any other fashion like inside to outside.. Say it went top to bottom, what happens when the body is sending blood or thought patterns upwards and they try to pass into part of the body that's no longer there because it's been converted to energy?? The blood would spurt out of the missing part or the neural connection that was being made would break. A bit like a car driving along a road then all the road from a millimetre ahead suddenly disappearing.

So it's got to be an instantaneous conversion at both ends, hasn't it??

Freezing the subject in time would help with that process though, maybe cryogenics would allow the person to be converted to/from energy slowly..

 

Then we need a particle accelerator or some similarly incredible machine to turn those energy particles into tachyons and a way of guiding them to the reconstructor in the past...

I've read that most of the cosmologists like Hawkings reckon any time machine would only be able to send you back to the first time you got the time machine working.

 

With the idea I'm talking about you could only ever send a person to a time when the receiver was turned on and wasn't busy reassembling another person.

 

The BIG problem is keeping all the tachyons together in one package and filtering out tachyons not part of the package.

 

Back to T-77's future observatory, convert the signal to tachyons and send that back in time to your receiver..

 

And if you think all that's too out of the box because "Tachyons don't exist!!"

Maybe we need to invent them.

 

What if some advanced species in the future has invented/discovered them and they're sending beings or data back waiting for another less advanced species to figure out how to catch them and reassemble them into their original forms??

 

It's all science fiction though, a bit like men flying to the moon in rocket ships.

Or cooking a meal by firing radio waves at it.

Or making a glass ball light up when you connect two bits of metal wire.

Or reproducing a human being without sex.

Or sending a moving picture through the air to peoples homes.

Or...

 

So forget my idea cos obviously it's just a load of old bollo...

[Stumblebum]

Myself and others may think reverse time travel is impossible....doesn't mean it might not be achieved one day. Hey, I wish you all the best in your endeavors. You may discover other useful knowledge along the way even if you don't get there.

 

I think we have to figure out what model of the universe is in fact the correct one. Think of a finite-no boundary as the best chance of seeing reverse time-travel. Tqke the surface of a balloon and press 2 fingers into it. Now the distance between the two fingers on the surface represents the distance light travels or the actual measured distance. In reality your fingertips could almost be touching. How do we get through the membrane to actually physically touch tips without tearing the membrane? Is there another dimension we could travel through to get to the past? or some kind of tunnel? I hope this analogy makes sense.